Johnny Skeptic

You are not making any sense. If President Bush was able to predict anything that he wanted to predict, it would only take him a few days or a few weeks to convince over 90% of the people in the world that he could predict the future. If Pat Robertson had predicted when and where Hurricane Katrina would go ashore months in advance, and had used the world media to make his prediction, is it your position that millions of skeptics around the world would not have become more interested in studying the Bible, and that not one single person would have become a Christian because of it? Edgar Cayce and Nostradamus have lots of followers. Cayce and Nostradamus never predicted anything nearly as convincing as predicting when and where a hurricane would go ashore months in advance.

arnoldo

God doesn't care about predicting the future but changing people's hearts. That's why he continuously sent prophets to Israel to warn them but the Jews frequently scoffed at the prophets and killed them at times. God then decided to send his Son, in the fullness of time, and you know the rest of the story.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to arnoldo: Why should the Jews have believed that Jesus was the Messiah? Micah 5:2 predicted that the messiah would become ruler of Israel. Jesus did not become ruler of Israel. Jews were mislead into believing that the messiah would rule an earthly kingdom. That was unnecessary since Micah could easily have said that the messiah would rule a heavenly kingdom.
He also could have gained a lot of credibility by predicting that Pontius Pilate would become the governor of Palestine.

Whoever wrote 2 Samuel 7:10 was obviously not a prophet. He said that Jews would eventually have a homeland of their own where no one would bother them. That is not going to happen, especially since the Bible says that there will always be wars and rumors of wars in this life, and that in the last days nation will rise against nation.

Why haven't you made any posts in my thread on self-fulfilled prophecies. You obviously still do not have any idea what a self-fulfilled prophecy is. Please make a post in that thread. In addition, please make a post in my new thread at the GRD Forum at http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=235480. I started that thread in order to discuss the following issue that came up:

As I proved, that is an absurd claim. If anything, the poor behavior of Christians has discredited the Bible. Whatever comments you have to make, please make them in that thread.

Johnny Skeptic

You said:

Didn't believe what? If Ezekiel had predicted that Alexander would defeat Tyre, all Jews would have believed that God inspired Ezekiel to predict that.

Why should the Jews have believed that Jesus was the Messiah? Micah 5:2 predicted that the messiah would become ruler of Israel. Jesus did not become ruler of Israel. Jews were mislead into believing that the messiah would rule an earthly kingdom. That was unnecessary since Micah could easily have said that the messiah would rule a heavenly kingdom.
He also could have gained a lot of credibility by predicting that Pontius Pilate would become the governor of Palestine.

Whoever wrote 2 Samuel 7:10 was obviously not a prophet. He said that Jews would eventually have a homeland of their own where no one would bother them. That is not going to happen, especially since the Bible says that there will always be wars and rumors of wars in this life, and that in the last days nation will rise against nation.

Regarding "God doesn't care about predicting the future but changing people's hearts," that is obviously false because you could never change a rational person's heart by killing people and innocent animals will hurricanes, and punishing Jewish babies for their parents' disobedience. I suggest that we continue our discuss about God's character in the thread at the MF&P Forum where you and I have been discussing God's character.

arnoldo

Ekekiel told the Jews that Nebby was going to destroy Jerusalem. The Jews didn't believe it.

arnoldo

Yes read the book of revelation and what Yeshua says to the 7 churches. He mentioned that christians were having poor behavior.

arnoldo

[QUOTE=Johnny Skeptic;5118331]ok

arnoldo

That's why, in part, Yeshua was rejected as the messiah because he didn't establish the Kingdom of Israel at that time 2000 years ago.

arnoldo

It's not irrelevant "the no two stones" prophecy in reference to the 2nd Jerusalem temple is a historical fact.

juergen

This is another piece of theory that doesn't fit in real life.

Why just does it seem impossible for an omniscient, omnipotent, loving God to change the hearts of everyone so that everyone believes?

He doesn't care about changing people's hearts half as what he cares about going through with a plan that involved the loss of most of humanity, not to mention the rest of his creation that is getting smashed to bits over time.

Reality would look different if a God existed that really longs for everyone to know him and be saved. He would be seen by everyone. He wouldn't leave the choice up to these "flawed, seemingly easily confused" humans, and withhold information that would convert everyone.

With a God that is perfect, who doesn't make mistakes, whatever shows up as being real, is because it's supposed to be like it. Do you think God makes mistakes? If God is perfect, his will comes to pass.

If what is happening today is his will coming to pass, God has a bunch of priorities superseding changing people's hearts. This not happening necessarily implies that he doesn't want it to be that way.

Does God live with unfulfilled desires?