Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johann_Kaspar · 01-10-2006, 03:00 PM

Today on a French radio was an emission about atheism and agnosticism.

Here is the link for people understanding French (broadcast from 1/10/2006):

http://www.radiofrance.fr/chaines/fr...ions/telsonne/

One participant said (translated from French):

Quote:

André Comte-Sponville :

The atheist is the one who does not believe in dog [...] The problem is that nobody truely knows wether dog exists or not. Although I am an atheist, it is not a knowledge that I would have, it is an opinion. I am often saying that if you meet someone who is saying "I know that dog does not exist", he is not an atheist, he is a moron ("un imbécile"). The truth is that we do not know.

Comments?

(To be complete, he says the same thing about people who know that dog exists.)

Minnesota Joe · 01-10-2006, 03:47 PM

I think we can be rationally justified in believing in dogs. I have two.

Gods* are another matter. To know something means to be justified (and correct) in believing that it is true. To be justified in a belief means to use some reliable argument or evidence for that belief.

So, why can't I argue that the best explanation for why people have been unable to produce any reliable evidence for gods, for why theistic proofs of gods fail, and for why religions are confused in a way consistent with being made up, (and I could go on) is that there are, in fact, no gods?

This is the same type of explanation people have been engaging in since the dawn of time except that we know a lot more about explaining things than did our ancestors.

*Here, I minimally define 'god(s)' to be intelligent creator beings.

Spenser · 01-10-2006, 03:47 PM

I don't own a dog but I have seen plenty of people walking them.

Ravear · 01-10-2006, 03:52 PM

Two thousand years of religious conditioning and this is the best they can come up with? For shame!

DMC · 01-10-2006, 03:56 PM

I don't believe in French people.

James T · 01-10-2006, 04:08 PM

I also state that I believe gravity sucks ... it never repells. Yet I have no evidence other than the fact that gravity keeps on sucking.

Gravity repells ... not! Likewise God exists ... not!

JustBlazed · 01-10-2006, 04:10 PM

*I* believe in smelly, obnoxious, Elitist French people.

James T · 01-10-2006, 04:15 PM

I recall the French sending agents to blow up a Greenpeace boat. An act of war by France against NZ. Damn shame they got caught eh.

EssEff · 01-10-2006, 04:15 PM

Dog exists but only through my senses of the dog - seeing it beg for treats, hearing it bark at squirrels, smelling the poopy he leaves in the grass, and feeling the fur behind his hear when I scratch him. I haven't tried tasting him, but I bet he does taste like something.

The question, therefore, is whether *I* exist. In the dog's opnion, not only do I exist, but I am also a god. I however, do not believe that the dog is god, because when I pray for him to pee outside he turns around and pees on the carpet. Also, he eats bird poopy and therefore his opinion about me is suspect.

Ergo, I exist. Dog exists. I am not god. There is no god.

01-10-2006, 04:41 PM

Comte-Sponville???

Nooo!!!! The dreaded spon! Run for the hills before it develops into lurgi! I blame Count Jim "Thighs" Moriarty and Professor Hercules Gritpype-Thynne for importing this scoundrel Sponville. No doubt he sailed across the channel on Napoleon's piano, since you can't get the leather for the omnibusses, you know.

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01-10-2006, 03:47 PM	#2
Minnesota Joe Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,322	I think we can be rationally justified in believing in dogs. I have two. Gods* are another matter. To know something means to be justified (and correct) in believing that it is true. To be justified in a belief means to use some reliable argument or evidence for that belief. So, why can't I argue that the best explanation for why people have been unable to produce any reliable evidence for gods, for why theistic proofs of gods fail, and for why religions are confused in a way consistent with being made up, (and I could go on) is that there are, in fact, no gods? This is the same type of explanation people have been engaging in since the dawn of time except that we know a lot more about explaining things than did our ancestors. *Here, I minimally define 'god(s)' to be intelligent creator beings.

01-10-2006, 03:47 PM	#3
Spenser Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Don't you wish your boy friend got drunk like me, Posts: 7,808	I don't own a dog but I have seen plenty of people walking them.

01-10-2006, 03:52 PM	#4
Ravear Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: asdf Posts: 1,399	Two thousand years of religious conditioning and this is the best they can come up with? For shame!

01-10-2006, 03:56 PM	#5
DMC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstairs Posts: 3,803	I don't believe in French people.

01-10-2006, 04:08 PM	#6
James T Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: NewØZealand Posts: 4,599	I also state that I believe gravity sucks ... it never repells. Yet I have no evidence other than the fact that gravity keeps on sucking. Gravity repells ... not! Likewise God exists ... not!

01-10-2006, 04:10 PM	#7
JustBlazed Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New England Posts: 2,673	I believe in smelly, obnoxious, Elitist French people.

01-10-2006, 04:15 PM	#8
James T Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: NewØZealand Posts: 4,599	I recall the French sending agents to blow up a Greenpeace boat. An act of war by France against NZ. Damn shame they got caught eh.

01-10-2006, 04:15 PM	#9
EssEff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 5,641	Dog exists but only through my senses of the dog - seeing it beg for treats, hearing it bark at squirrels, smelling the poopy he leaves in the grass, and feeling the fur behind his hear when I scratch him. I haven't tried tasting him, but I bet he does taste like something. The question, therefore, is whether I exist. In the dog's opnion, not only do I exist, but I am also a god. I however, do not believe that the dog is god, because when I pray for him to pee outside he turns around and pees on the carpet. Also, he eats bird poopy and therefore his opinion about me is suspect. Ergo, I exist. Dog exists. I am not god. There is no god.

01-10-2006, 04:41 PM	#10
cajela Guest Posts: n/a	Comte-Sponville??? Nooo!!!! The dreaded spon! Run for the hills before it develops into lurgi! I blame Count Jim "Thighs" Moriarty and Professor Hercules Gritpype-Thynne for importing this scoundrel Sponville. No doubt he sailed across the channel on Napoleon's piano, since you can't get the leather for the omnibusses, you know.

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