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Old 01-10-2013, 11:07 AM   #11
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Could it be my poor memory. Did not Jesus actually meet
a guy that was blind and his relatives had taken him to these
therapeutae there locally and them failed and Jesus took clay?
and spit on it and covered his eyes and he suddenly could see?

Have I made it up? I am too lazy to look for it and as atheist
I think it is myth but it could be the text wanting to say Jesus
was greater than these famous people therapeutae?
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:25 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by worldly View Post
Could it be my poor memory. Did not Jesus actually meet
a guy that was blind and his relatives had taken him to these
therapeutae there locally and them failed and Jesus took clay?
and spit on it and covered his eyes and he suddenly could see?

Have I made it up? I am too lazy to look for it and as atheist
I think it is myth but it could be the text wanting to say Jesus
was greater than these famous people therapeutae?
Nono, that was in Mark where Jesus had to take this guy aside the second time to spit in both eyes so he could see. And then when asked if he could see he said that he could see 'men that looked like trees,' and that, of course, was just backwards as he should see 'trees walking like men' = as our equal in the sight of God.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:04 PM   #13
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we need someone good at searching through the bible.
could it be another verse they tell him that the supposed
to be good at it healers had failed so they challenged
if jesus was as good as claimed?

Guys my memory is not to be trusted that way
but my gut feeling is that the text does refer to these
Therapeutae somethign but maybe don't mention that term
could it be the comments in some Bible from the Translators
giving their understanding and the text itself only mention
Healers or something. Did they mention a Bath and that
it was used for to heal persons? Sorry I have to give up
I get headache thinking about it.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:20 PM   #14
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You are perhaps thinking of Mark 5:25-34 ? (Luke 8:43-48)

The Grrek word translated as 'physician' here is ἰατρός 'iatros', and is used 7 times in the NT.

Not to say that couldn't be the same as the therepeutae, but is simply not indicated by the texts.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:44 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by worldly View Post
we need someone good at searching through the bible.
could it be another verse they tell him that the supposed
to be good at it healers had failed so they challenged
if jesus was as good as claimed?

Guys my memory is not to be trusted that way
but my gut feeling is that the text does refer to these
Therapeutae somethign but maybe don't mention that term
could it be the comments in some Bible from the Translators
giving their understanding and the text itself only mention
Healers or something. Did they mention a Bath and that
it was used for to heal persons? Sorry I have to give up
I get headache thinking about it.
Yes there are healing baths besides the mikvahs. One from the destroyed temple is attested and may be the one in the gospel "Bethesda" controversy remains, but there is a pool. It is also confused with the pool of Siloam



Healers were quite common as peasants could not afford regular medical care.

Nothing about health care for Jews in Galilee can be tied to this sect that very very little is even known about.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:01 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by mountainman View Post
According to the WIKI article the Therapeutae were a Jewish sect which flourished in Alexandria and other parts of the Diaspora of Hellenistic Judaism in the final years of the Second Temple period. The primary source concerning the Therapeutae is the account De vita contemplativa ("The Contemplative Life") by the Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria (c. 20 BCE - 50 CE) who appears to have been personally acquainted with them.


The Therapeutae of Asclepius

The Therapeutae of Asclepius do not appear to be mentioned and I think should be. There are ample testimonies to the existence of such a group in the early centuries, and they were associated with the temple network of Asclepius, the healing god of the Roman Empire before the 4th century. The physician Galen, personal attendant to the Emperor Marcus Aurelius considered himself to be one of the "Therapeutae of Asclepius".


See also therapeutic

Quote:
ther·a·peu·tic (thr-pytk) also ther·a·peu·ti·cal (-t-kl)
adj.

1. Having or exhibiting healing powers: a therapeutic agent; therapeutic exercises.

2. Of or relating to the medical treatment of a disease or condition.

[New Latin therapeuticus, from Greek therapeutikos, from therapeuts, one who administers, from therapeuein, to serve, administer treatment, from theraps, therap-, attendant; see therapy.]
But, isn't everything we know about the History of the Roman people from the Church or passed through the Forgery Mill??

What makes you reject Philo but accept the claims about Asclepius by Roman/Greek writers??
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worldly View Post
we need someone good at searching through the bible.
could it be another verse they tell him that the supposed
to be good at it healers had failed so they challenged
if jesus was as good as claimed?

Guys my memory is not to be trusted that way
but my gut feeling is that the text does refer to these
Therapeutae somethign but maybe don't mention that term
could it be the comments in some Bible from the Translators
giving their understanding and the text itself only mention
Healers or something. Did they mention a Bath and that
it was used for to heal persons? Sorry I have to give up
I get headache thinking about it.
Thanks worldly,

You may be thinking about The Pool of Bethesda

See John 5.1,9

Quote:
Originally Posted by WIKI
The Pool of Bethesda is a pool of water in the Muslim Quarter of Jerusalem, on the path of the Beth Zeta Valley. The Gospel of John describes such a pool in Jerusalem, near the Sheep Gate, which is surrounded by five covered colonnades. It is associated with healing.


History

The history of the pool began in the 8th century BC, when a dam was built across the short Beth Zeta valley, turning it into a reservoir for rain water;[24][25][26] a sluice-gate in the dam allowed the height to be controlled, and a rock-cut channel brought a steady stream of water from the reservoir into the city[24] The reservoir became known as the Upper Pool (בריכה העליונה). Around 200 BC, during the period in which Simon II was the Jewish High Priest, the channel was enclosed, and a second pool was added on the south side of the dam;[24][25][26] although popular legend argues that this pool was used for washing sheep, this is very unlikely due to the pool's use as a water supply, and its extreme depth (13m).

In the 1st century BC, natural caves to the east of the two pools were turned into small baths, as part of an asclepieion;[24][27] however, the Mishnah implies that at least one of these new pools was sacred to Fortuna,[28] the goddess of fortune, rather than Asclepius, the god of healing.[29] Scholars think it likely that this development was founded by the Roman garrison of the nearby Antonia Fortress,[24] who would also have been able to protect it from attack[27] the location of the asclepieion, outside the then city walls, would have made its presence tolerable to the Jews, who might otherwise have objected to a non-Jewish religious presence in their holy city.[27]

In the mid 1st century AD, Herod Agrippa expanded the city walls, bringing the asclepieion into the city. When Hadrian rebuilt Jerusalem as Aelia Capitolina, he placed a roadway along the dam, and expanded the asclepieion into a large temple to Asclepius and Serapis.[24] In the Byzantine era, the asclepieion was converted to a church.

An article from http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/bethesda.htm

Jesus steals the magic of Asclepius!

Quote:
Miracle, Magic or Myth?



“And when the Devil brings forward Asclepius as the raiser of the dead and healer of all diseases, may I not say that in this matter likewise he has imitated the prophecies about Christ?”

– Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 69.

The archaeology for the temples of Asclepius is literally everywhere about the Roman Empire during the first three centuries. These temples were essentially healing places and might be analogized as the public hospital system of antiquity. All students of the history of medicine learn about the physicians who were associated with these temples.

Galen calls himself one of the therapeutae of Asclepius.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:41 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by aa5874 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman View Post
According to the WIKI article the Therapeutae were a Jewish sect which flourished in Alexandria and other parts of the Diaspora of Hellenistic Judaism in the final years of the Second Temple period. The primary source concerning the Therapeutae is the account De vita contemplativa ("The Contemplative Life") by the Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria (c. 20 BCE - 50 CE) who appears to have been personally acquainted with them.


The Therapeutae of Asclepius

The Therapeutae of Asclepius do not appear to be mentioned and I think should be. There are ample testimonies to the existence of such a group in the early centuries, and they were associated with the temple network of Asclepius, the healing god of the Roman Empire before the 4th century. The physician Galen, personal attendant to the Emperor Marcus Aurelius considered himself to be one of the "Therapeutae of Asclepius".


See also therapeutic

Quote:
ther·a·peu·tic (thr-pytk) also ther·a·peu·ti·cal (-t-kl)
adj.

1. Having or exhibiting healing powers: a therapeutic agent; therapeutic exercises.

2. Of or relating to the medical treatment of a disease or condition.

[New Latin therapeuticus, from Greek therapeutikos, from therapeuts, one who administers, from therapeuein, to serve, administer treatment, from theraps, therap-, attendant; see therapy.]
But, isn't everything we know about the History of the Roman people from the Church or passed through the Forgery Mill??
Get real!

The "Evidential Bearing Fields" of Ancient History


Part (1): The "Literature Traditions"

◾ the speakers - authors (particularly "historians") and their estimable historicity.
◾ the words - ancient texts: their literature, its philology, and its translations.
◾ the documents - physical written source - original texts (codexes, papyrii, papyrii fragments)
◾ the historians - comments and analyses of the above by past and present ancient historians.


Part (2): The "Field Traditions"

◾ architecture, buildings, monuments
◾ inscriptions in stone and metal and mosaic - the epigraphic habit
◾ sarcophagi, burial relics, funerary ornaments
◾ coins (gold, silver and others)
◾ art, paintings and graffitti
◾ sculpture, reliefs, frescoes, ornamental works
◾ archeological relics and other citations


Part (3): The "Analysis Support Traditions & newer technologies"

◾ paleographic assessment of original texts, papyrii and papyrii fragments
◾ radio carbon dating citations
◾ collective and collaborative databases: epigraphic, numismatic, etc.
Quote:
What makes you reject Philo but accept the claims about Asclepius by Roman/Greek writers??
Get your head out of the literature of the bible and the ante Nicene so-called "Church Fathers" aa5874 and examine for a change some archaeology on Asclepius. If you do not study the archaeology you are not doing history. Study the archaeology.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0801...pt#reader-link

Asclepius: Collection and Interpretation of the Testimonies
Emma J. Edelstein, Ludwig Edelstein, Gary B. Ferngren


Quote:
Originally Posted by Book Description

Throughout nearly all of antiquity, the legendary Greek physician,
Asclepius, son of Apollo and Coronis, was not only the primary
representative of divine healing, but also so influential in the
religious life of later centuries that, as Emma J. Edelstein and
Ludwig Edelstein point out, "in the final stages of paganism,
of all genuinely Greek gods, [he] was judged the foremost
antagonist of Christ."

Providing an overview of all facets of the Asclepius phenomenon,
this book, first published in two volumes in 1945, comprises
a unique collection of the literary references and inscriptions
in ancient texts -- given in both the original and translation
-- to the deity, his life, his deeds, his cult, and his temples,
as well as an extended analysis of them.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:55 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by stephan huller View Post
θεραπευτής* comes from a root that means "to attend" usually the gods
The therapeutae of Asclepius were the attendants to the healing God Asclepius and may be seen as the physicians and their attendants to the head physician-priest of each temple. They would be the equivalent of the modern day staff attending the public hospitals in countries which have a reasonable public hospital system. For Christ sake see Galen.
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:01 PM   #20
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But, isn't everything we know about the History of the Roman people from the Church
No.
Quote:
or passed through the Forgery Mill??
No. There remain plenty of writings and inscriptions that the forgery mill had no hand in.
Their specialty was the manipulation of christian church documents, and the elimination of any early religious text or report that blatantly countered orthodox claims.
They couldn't control the literary output of the whole world, but did their damnedest to exert absolute control over that segment that had to do with the origins and teachings of the Christian religion.
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