Amaleq13

Paul's eucharist is about as antithetical to Jewish sensibilities as one can get. And how "Jewish as Jewish can be" is his exaltation of an allegedly recently executed man to the status of the pre-existent Son of God through whom the world was created?

Clivedurdle

Could you define your terms? What do you mean "The other Paul"?

Clivedurdle

I'm only attempting to put the many pieces of a jigsaw together in a different way, playing a what if game!

It might be for very high stakes! - like exchanging a geocentic view of the universe to a heliocentic, what happens if we exchange a Jerusalem centred view of xianity for a Roman one?

Paul5024, your responses seem to be still taking a bible, religious centred viewpoint. We shouldn't go to what so and so is alleged to have written without a clear understanding of the authenticity of what we are discussing, its dating and its context.

I'm trying to tease out a contextual perspective - what was going on then, what effects did that have where on existing cultures and societies, how come this particular species of religion found such a particularly successful niche?

The evolution website links to the Botany Society of America, where they discuss the evolution of wheat. Xianity feels like a hybrid of Roman and Judaic thinking, but Roman may be the stronger parent!

And I'm also writing metaphorically - I don't think there are any genes that cross breed, but maybe that is what Dawkins is thinking in terms of memes!

DinoStoned

He probably means his namesake, the Biblical Paul.

Amaleq13

When you put it that way, I tend to agree. In fact, I've said as much in other threads though I used the word "Hellenistic" instead of "Roman".

I think Paul's theology only makes sense if it is understood as coming from within an existing synthesis of pagan/Jewish thought but with the Jewish side considered, by the believers, to be the "main root". In other words, Christian beliefs didn't create this blend but resulted from an existing blend.

Paul5204

Amaleq13:

How would you describe Paul's Eucharist?

Don't otherwise confuse the Torah with human understanding of the Torah, as they are not the same. And if that Paul's and this Paul's reading of the Torah offends their sensibilities, then so be it. I don't mean that to be arrogant, but his and my reading is simply what it is. But you might ask why 70 nations, you might ask why 70 persons "go down" to Egypt [stated three times and everyone knows that the number is artificial], you might ask why the Jewish Publication Society reports in its Torah Commentary on Genesis that the 70s appear to be related, you might ask why Egypt is called that iron furnance and house of bondage [think sin and our captivity in that sin, or so later reports the Tanakh elsewhere], you consider the children of Israel being led out via a certain mighty arm and strong hand and then compare the same to the NT phrase re Yeshua being at the right hand of God, you might then consider the 70 elders + 2 in the camp [that 70 again plus an extra two], you might consider that the phrase in Genesis reporting that Japheth is to dwell in the tent of Shem is not the correct translation which is that Japheth is to displace the tent of Shem, etc....and lastly, you might consider the Tanakh's report concerning that certain stone of stumbling and how that other Paul says that Israel literally fell over it in failing to recognize the messiah when he came and accordingly were busy pursuing God's purpose in ignorance of that reality. Oh, and by the way, how do you teach children to write? You take them by the hand? Why would you expect it to be any different with God? Or if you prefer, read the book of Job. What is the most obvious objection that Job has but which is not stated by him? How about, Lord, you know, I understand that your ways are not my ways, but there's a saying where I come from, to wit, you can't judge a man unless you've walked a mile in his shoes....sorry, but my Lord didn't walk a mile, he grabbed his oppressor's pack and carried it with him for two. End of Job's best objection, as not only can he say he walked for that mile, he can also report a certain execution by torture [so he's been here and done that].

Amaleq13

I would describe it as consistent with pagan practices and contrary to Jewish sensibilities.

I think the reaction of "many of his disciples" to the same concept, depicted in John 6:66, is typical of how most Jews of the time would have reacted.