Jaecp

Those kinds of people don't always do so.

However, the rest of us who see how easily these are dismantled can then use them when another person preaching the same story comes around, especially if you are in public and they don't have the leisure to spend 45 minutes choosing which apologist to copy paste an argument from.

Thor Q. Mada

And may I then ask self mutation to show me a millimeter of paper written by the famous jesus. And indeed it is true that the strongest human desire being sex, is completely absent from the xian description of heaven. This is one reason why all the xians are basically psychiatry cases.

Kosh

I think all it would prove is that Paul/Saul invented Direct Mailing Marketing...

greenbear

Reads like another lame Lee Strobel apologetic.

IamJoseph

What makes you say these are real people - what non-Gospel evidence do you have? There is not a single contampoary document in existence - and writings are commonplace at this time [the scrools!]. Paul is a real person, but the writings ascribed to him cannot be real. If you have any historical evidence of any of the apostles, please supply them - it will be the first time this has been evidenced.

There is also no evidence a trial was held - this is not seen in any Roman archives, while numerous other trials are listed.

IamJoseph

How do you tell if he wrte it - Paul never even met Jesus. A later, European would have wrote this, and listed Paul's name onto it.If any of those writers were genuine and in Judea - they would have been addressing the Jews - in Hebrew, not in Latin, and they sure would not switch Hebrew names for Roman ones.

storytime

I'm inclined to agree with you Joseph on some of your points but need more evidence that the character "Paul" would have been a non-Jewish European. I'm more of the persuasion that the writer was a "Jew hating Jew" misfit living among Romans, a Jew hating Jew who knew bits and pieces of his ancient religion but not enough to convince the whole world that he knew what the hell he was talking about.

Why would they have not switched their Hebrew names for Roman ones? Why did Jews change their Hebrew names to more fitting Gentile names in the Hollywood atmosphere of films, movies, TV series? Why did Jews change their Hebrew names upon entering the U.S. and applying for American citizenship?

mountainman

Christianity has the immense authority of Eusebius about which Momigliano once observed ...

IamJoseph

Sure he was a Jew, but a secularised 3rd generation greek, who's big claim to fame was his Roman citizenship - which he used to claim immunity when in prison in Ceaseara, demanding a Roman trial. Being Jewish, he was executed in Rome - so the notion that Rome would grant a trial for Jesus, when a heresy decree was hovering - makes no sense at all.

The switching of names was usually undertaken to avoid being seen as Jewish, which language and beliefs were forbidden by Nero, who resurrected the Caligula doctrines. This was als seen in Europe, where Jews adjusted their names to hinder the medevial church's doctrines, then also in USA because of its residual antisemitism spread by firey preists, such as Judas, Deicide, fagins, long noses, etc, etc.

My point here is, while Saul of Tarsus was a real historical person - because of the Josephus documents verification - as opposed the Gospels, none of the writings attributed to Paul can be proven, and all pointers are these were later Roman/Greek forgeries and doctored writings.

Doug Shaver

The same is true of every other religion.

Some skeptics claim that. This skeptic has never claimed it. Anything you say that challenges a belief that I don't hold is totally irrelevant to me.

I don't believe that the authors of the Bible were making up a religion, so this is another irrelevancy, as far as I'm concerned.

If you think that enhances its credibility, you've got another think coming.

That doesn't mean such males don't exist or have no influence on religious dogma.

If you're referring to Jesus' disciples, I don't find their portrayal realistic at all. People as stupid as the gospel authors make them out to be couldn't have earned a decent living, but according the stories, they were all gainfully employed before Jesus summoned them.

Well, then, we may reasonably infer that the stories were not written by the people they were about.

No, it doesn't.