aupmanyav

Yes, India has an unusually large percentage of people who are enlightened. Every other one is.

Styrofoamdeity

I am a humanist (member in fact of a secular humanist organization) who has a deep affection for Buddhism. One of my hobbies is undertaking temple pilgramages around Japan- I find great solace there, and shall be buried in a temple grounds when I die, with the space already reserved. Nevertheless, I do believe that in its doctrine, but not in its practice in Japan and the East, Buddhism is somewhat contrary to humanism. For example, I find the emphasis in the Four Noble Truths on human suffering to be unduly pessimistic. From a humanistic standpoint, life is not about escape from pain and suffering, but about living our alloted time to its fullest and helping fellow beings.

Needless to say, humanism posits that living fully and morally (I am fond of Dr. Kurz's term "Eupraxophy") is a positive good IN THIS LIFE. There is no other life. It is pointless to expect some future reward to be enjoyed after death. Our goodness must be true goodness- a goodness that does not depend on some personal reward in heaven or in a future reincarnation (or escape from a future reincarnation).

wordy

Buddhists look down on being overly attached. To be dependent on material things is very human. Suffering is part of what it is like to be human.

Buddhist practice seems elitistic to me. A kind of escape from the world instead of to deal with it.

Their greatest heroe gave up on living wit hwife and kids.

That is to escape instead of to grow enough in maturity to live happy with wife and kids. Buddhists are kind of cheating instead of living life.

Answerer

I'm an attached person and don't look down on anyone that is overly attached unless they are fundamentalists.

I'm not an elite and there is a buddhist center near my house that taught practices to elderly, young kids, women, etc. And we have our own jobs, friends and families and are not escaping from the world, not even close.

We also have lots of heroes that have wives, kids and consorts.

If Buddhists are cheaters, then they are not following Buddha to begin with. And if they fled in the face of difficulties, then they are cowards and shame Buddha's name and teaching.

premjan

Enlightenment is a sort of cultural norm in India, sort of like body building in the USA I think.

aupmanyav

Kudos, Premjan, very true.

aupmanyav

Free-will, don't be so sure. Without sounding like a pessimist, one of the victims of tsunami also wanted that. Not that it makes any difference, it also depends on circumstances. I want my ashes to be divided and thrown into rivers at three places, the sources of Rivers Alakananda (Badrinath), Mandakini (Kedarnath), and Tiuni, a tributary of River Yamuna (Har-ki-doon, an alpine valley). At least my son would have to visit these beautiful places.

Hrvoje Butkovic

Apart from the cultural bias, this statement runs contrary to the tendency of people to feel closer to the world as a whole as they become more mature/enlightened, who therefore find it less desirable to single out a particular person, place or thing as more special than any other.

aupmanyav

You cannot measure all people with the same scale, some just have to.

Hrvoje Butkovic

Since concepts like maturity and enlightenment are multi-faceted, their evaluation is correspondingly complex and needs to encompass many diverse aspects (one’s inner peace, compassion, tolerance, consistency, ability to give and receive love, heal, uplift, inspire, etc, etc). However, to say that one can rank low on all of these scales and still be considered mature/enlightened is to rob the term of its meaning. It doesn’t follow that it is wrong or bad to rank low, but such a ranking does indicate a low level of maturity/enlightenment.