Sauron

So if you think that the arguments of your Muslim opponents would be vastly improved by exposure to Arabic, it naturally follows that your own arguments are likewise crippled by your (apparent, although deliberately un-acknowledged) skill in Arabic.

Checkmate.

Let's recap your somersaulting, shall we?

1. You first claimed to be getting your information about Catholicism and Islam from the "official sources for each religion." No one believed you, but a test was needed.

2. The official source for Islam is the Quran and - to a lesser extent - the hadith. Islam insists that the true meaning is only in Arabic.

3. I asked you for your opinion of a particular doctrinal point, along with your citations to buttress your viewpoint. Many posts have gone by since, and you have yet to change your spine from jelly to steel and answer me.

4. Instead, you waved your hands mightily - you're in the UK, but I felt the handwave all the way over here in Seattle - trying to claim that you could understand Islam through translations, since you had argued with non-Arabic speaking Muslims. That point is irrelevant, of course. But for the moment, let's note that your translations are not the "official source of the religion".

5. To refute your claim, I pointed out to you that non-Arabic speaking Muslims will freely admit that their understanding is imperfect, and would be enhanced by knowing Arabic.

6. You agreed, but tried to turn it into a criticism of the arguments presented by your Muslim opponents. As if their arguments could be improved by knowing Arabic (how would you know that, pray tell?)

7. However, since the crux of my statement was that a failure to know Arabic hinders the quality of the Muslim argument, that same statement applies to your attempts to rebut these opponents of yours. But the problem here was one of your own making. You simply didn't realize that you had exploded a grenade in your own face, until I pointed it out to you.

The question still waits for your answer:
what is your opinion of maghluq vs. ghayr maghluq? And what are your citations that support your position?

Weltall

And Christianity isn't oriental? Mind you, hackles rise whenever I hear that word but this really makes me stop and wonder what you're thinking.

Clouseau

Catholicism isn't, or rather, wasn't.

Sauron

And apparently still isn't Oriental. Unless you'd like to present some evidence to the contrary? Or for your claim that Islam is just oriental Catholicism?

Or for anything else you've said?

By now you've probably realized that your word alone will hardly suffice. Better late than never.:devil:

Sauron

Ah. Bumpies are called for here.

Still waiting for Clouseau to present evidence that Islam is just an Oriental version of Catholicism.

Cheerful Charlie

[quote=Clouseau;4540349]Better read that Bible again. You are headed straight for the deepest pits of Hell. When did Paul outrank Jesus? Paul, faith - no works. Jesus - works or burn. Could Paul be one of those false prophets Jesus mentioned
to avoid? That flash in the sky on the road to Damascus - Could it have been..... Satan?

Matthew 25


37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Cheerful Charlie