Jinksy

I was browsing through Lanakila's thread, and wondering about this - while she complains about the insensitivity of comments suggesting she was never a true Christian to begin with, don't atheists tend to do much the same?

I'm not sure how to explain instances of secularist conversions without resorting to some variant of the 'they never embraced the principles of freethought in the first place.' I'd like to think that we tend to be a bit less insensitive about it, but I'm not sure I really believe that. That notwithstanding though, aren't criticisms of the fundamentalist mind's inability to accept rational (in their sense of the word) disagreement with their position much the same as secularists believing the same?

Sure, secularism has a lot else going for it that fundamentalism can't claim, but is there really any difference in this kind of case?

Queen of Swords

I'm afraid I can't express my own mindset any better than this, but here goes :

If someone like seebs says he was once an atheist, but then decided that Christianity offered him much more, I have no problems believing him.

If someone like Robert Lee of tencommandments.org fame says that he was once a miserable unbeliever who killed butterflies for the heck of it, but then realized that Jesus is the One True God who would burn all atheists in hell forever.... well, I have a harder time believing that he was ever actually an atheist. Something about the combination of vitriol and strawmen.

Viti

I don't really get what you are saying? Many people convert to a religion who were apatheists. But I have never heard of someone who rationally concluded that there probably isn't any deities and studied all of the evidence, suddenly changing their mind.

nessa20x

I thinka lot of times born again xians become born-again due to an emotional need. They have to turn back to religion because it offers comfort and ritualism that atheism doesn't. I think it is pretty difficult for people to accept atheism because of the lack of comfort during times when people die or are suffering.

Krosis

does one have to be an ex-atheist or ex-apatheist to become a born again christian? (BAC)

I never knew that was a requirement..

I've known many people who consider themselves BACs who were never anything even close to resembling an atheist...

-cheers

Viti

True, I just assumed most were some kind of Christian, and simply slipped into fundamentalism. I know several who were Catholics, then found "the truth" and are now BAC

nixon

I think the difference in Christian VS Atheist thought is this:

The Christian believes that there is a mysterious "doneness" (Called born again) to proclaiming your Christianity. That is once you truely believe in your heart that Jesus died for your sins (And you confess those sins to Jesus) and was raised back up, your become "born again". Most Christians believe that while one can backslide, they cannot become UN born again. Otherwise known as once saved always saved. Some Christians (Including my wife) don't really believe "born again" and believe that if you sin, you are in the state you were before confessing your sins.

Atheist thought is way different. I can be an atheist all my life without really thinking about it. Everyone is born an atheist. If I am not exposed to a theistic religion, I will eventually die an atheist. If I am exposed to a theistic religion, I can remain an atheist or become of that religion. If I become of that religion, I (Or someone else) could say I was never really an atheist to begin with since I was not commited to it.

Likewise if in my heart I didn't really believe in Jesus, I wouldn't be born again either. No one would know the difference. However due to the structure of most theistic religions, the "god" is in your face all the time and you must commit or leave. Atheism due to it's default nature doesn't put the nonfaith in a god in your face all the time, so you don't have to make any choice to remain atheistic. That is why ex-Christians are often refered to not really being born again (Although the people making that accusation are often wrong: They were in my case since when I believed, I know I really believed), but atheists don't usually make that same judgement of an atheist who becomes theist because they know that a given atheist might just be defaulted there and not commited to it unlike someone who proclaims that they are atheist and will not change.

Hope that helps

butswana

Some people that call themselves atheists are pissed off at god for some reason or another. So they aren't REALLY atheists. They believe, but they are consciously deciding to deny that god exists.
The way I see it, once you dive in and do the investigative research it's all over. The house of cards will fall. There is absolutely NO evidence to back the claim. That becomes evident fast.
If some one is really an atheist they cannot go back to belief without making a conscious decision to forget all of their research(ten years of research in my case). And how in the hell are you going to do that?
BACs that claim to have been atheists are liars. The only reason they make the claim is so that people will think that god has to be real because this guy who used to be a wretched god-hater now basks in Christs' Golden Glory.

Malagasy Rain

As someone just said, I think most people become BACs just for the warm fuzzies and empty promises. They usually don't give much consideration to any rational thinking.

Remeber this, folks:
Reason always gives way to passion.

jafosei

People are heavily invested in their beliefs, especially the ones that they believe they arrived at through hard thinking or 'soul' searching. As such, we often feel that the idea of someone else holding very similar beliefs to our own and then rejecting them after their own hard thinking or 'soul' searching is somehow an indictment of our current beliefs. So we claim: "that person never really believed what I believe" or "they didn't consider all of the evidence" or something similar. We protect our investment in our current beliefs. After all, we're right, and if they really understood our beliefs, they'd agree.

I think it's fairly evident that a very great percentage of people think this way, no matter which beliefs they espouse. Theists and atheists alike defend their beliefs this way, in my opinion. It's natural to seek confirmation of our beliefs and to attack things that seem to attack our beliefs.

So yes, I agree with you Jinksy: the "true atheist" card does get played, same as the "true Christian" card. I don't know if it's played as often; I seem to see the "true Christian" claim more often, but that may be my own bias showing.

Personally, I am content to accept the fact that some people will reject my beliefs and reject my arguments for holding my beliefs. Different minds work differently, they base their reasoning on a different set of experiences and on different wiring. I still think they're probably wrong, but that's probably okay too.