Doug Shaver

That is a circular argument. Your premise assumes your conclusion.

Helpmabob

Hi Sven - There is one Christ. People are either for Him or against Him. Christ will prevail, but meanwhile, the devil is at work - he is an expert deceiver. Some will be deceived.Bye, Sven and God bless.

Hi Doug - I wrote that a few pages ago? If it were an argument, it would be worse than circular, it would be nonsensical. However, it is more an observation and an application of what I have learnt in life to this point. On the other hand, it remains that there are many who are one with Christ, justified by His grace, that are convinced that the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God.

Malachi151

"Where, then, is wisdom? It consists in thinking neither that you know all things, which is the property of God; nor that you are ignorant of all things, which is the part of a beast. For it is something of a middle character which belongs to man, that is, knowledge united and combined with ignorance. Knowledge in us is from the soul, which has its origin from heaven; ignorance from the body, which is from the earth:"
- Divine Institutes, Book III; Lucius Lactantius (~250-325 CE) (Early Christian founder)

"I will therefore set forth the system of the world, that it may easily be understood both when and how it was made by God; which Plato, who discoursed about the making of the world, could neither know nor explain, inasmuch as he was ignorant of the heavenly mystery, which is not learned except by the teaching of prophets and God;... But since God has revealed this to us, and we do not arrive at it by conjectures, but by instruction from heaven, we will carefully teach it, that it may at length be evident to those who are desirous of the truth, that the philosophers did not see nor comprehend the truth; but that they had so slight a knowledge of it, that they by no means perceived from what source that fragrance of wisdom, which was so pleasant and agreeable, breathed upon them."
- Divine Institutes, Book VII; Lucius Lactantius (~250-325 CE) (Early Christian founder)

"For Scripture, which confirms the truth of its historical statements by the accomplishment of its prophecies, teaches not falsehood;"
- The City of God; Saint Augustine of Hippo (354-430 CE) (Early Christian founder)

"Nor, however, are we so arrogant as to boast that the truth is comprehended by our intellect; but we follow the teaching of God, who alone is able to know and to reveal secret things. But the philosophers, being destitute of this teaching, have imagined that the nature of things can be ascertained by conjecture. But this is impossible; because the mind of man, enclosed in the dark abode of the body, is far removed from the perception of truth: and in this the divine nature differs from the human, that ignorance is the property of the human, knowledge of the divine nature."
- On the Anger of God; Lactantius (3rd century EC) (Early Christian founder)

Doug Shaver

Considering the context, it appeared to be intended as an argument. And, it would not be the first time I've seen an apologist use it.

Really? You have observed people witnessing miracles and not being convinced? Or have you witnessed people not being convinced by a lexicographically correct Bible?

There are people who believe that they are. Believing it does not make it so.

Is that supposed to be evidence of something?

Sven

:rolling:

Now, please tell me how do you determine that you are not the deceived one.

Julian

Which particular bible is it that is inspired by god?

Julian

Helpmabob

Hi Doug - No. There are instances in the bible of people not being convinced by witnessing miracles. Miracles could be explained away by coincidence or such like. A perfectly lexicographically correct Bible does not exist. My opinion is that, working on the basis of the miracles being explained away, so also would this perfect Bible.True, but not believing it, according to the Bible, makes it not so.

Hi Sven - It is because the Spirit I follow acknowledges Christ as Lord. And although I won’t deny that I occasionally have doubts, and although I have given myself ample opportunity in the past to stray from this if it is not the truth, in the end I have always come back to putting my trust in Christ.

Hi Julian - I assume you mean which translation? Good question, I would say that all the main ones are. There are some versions (not translations) by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, for example, that have been altered to suit their own leanings and should be avoided.

Sven

Nice. This is exactly the same we hear from other Christians, who interpret the bible entirely differently, even on such important things as salvation.
I repeat: How do you know that they are the ones who are deceived by Satan, not you?

Julian

No, I mean which Greek bible. UBS4? TR? Majority? Oldest?

Julian

Helpmabob

Hi Sven – I have discovered the Bible and the God that stands behind it to be good, true and trustworthy (that is what I have found to be the case) and so I trust it when it talks about decpetion by the devil. Asking me how I can be sure I am not being deceived by some unknowable devilish force is going to be frustrated on account of the fact that no man can answer that question adequately. On the other hand, if you can possibly give me a specific example(s) of what kind of christian you are talking about here and the particular interpretation that differs from mine, then I will be very happy to address this point.

Hi Julian - I don’t know the answer I’m afraid, Julian. In all my walk of faith so far, this issue has never troubled me. Personally, I stick to the NIV and the AV (KJV). Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body. [Ecclesiastes 12:12]