aa5874

I have learned a lot, thanks to Agemegos. This information about about the god Pan and Pheiddipides have re-inforced my position that the historicity of Jesus the Christ is baseless, or should I say, based on mythology.

Ben C Smith

Asclepias of Mendes, as quoted by Suetonius.

Asclepias of Mendes, as quoted by Suetonius.

Ben.

Toto

Interesting. . . Herodotus seems to report the encounter with Pan with a little bit of skepticism:

aa5874

Without this passage, the story is already incredible, Pan cannot talk or meet anyone at anytime, whether at mount Parthenion, Sparta or anywhere else in the world.

What is now left is to figure out whether Pheiddipides was indeed a real person.

We have similar problems with respect to the passages from Matthew 1:18 and Luke 1:34-35, we have the unknown Mary and Joseph talking to unknown entities about unknown methods of conception.

We know angels do not exist, as described in the NT.
We know the virgin birth is a biological and physical impossibility as described in the NT.
The genealogy of the unknown Joseph appears to be fabricated as described in the NT.
Joseph, as described in the NT, cannot be determined, therefore Mary, his suppoosed wife is also undetermined.

I still need to hear from HJers, I want to get some good, or should I say the best evidence to support the historicity of Jesus the Christ.

Amaleq13

Since you acknowledge in a later post that you do not know if Pheiddipides was an historical figure, this information (absent flawed and/or simplistic reasoning) really can't be used to reinforce your belief.

aa5874

So do you control what I use to verify the non-historicity of Jesus the Christ? I simply cannot follow you.

Anything that I have written on this forum is subject to change, with or without your consent, or upon receiving relevant information that necessitates that action.

In effect, I would reverse my MJ position if someone can show me credible information of Jesus the Christ, his followers or his teachings, from an extra-biblical source, in the 1st century.

Huon

"The Blessed Virgin chose me because I was very poor and uneducated".

On February 11th 1858 the Virgin Mary appeared for the first time to Bernadette Soubirous in the Grotto of Massabielle, in Lourdes, and asked :
"Would you oblige me by coming here for the next fifteen days?"

The beautiful young lady addressed Bernadette in Bearnese (the local language at that time) and Bernadette said "yes".

Did Bernadette Soubirous exist ? Where and when did the Virgin Mary learn the local language spoken at Lourdes in 1858 ?

Amaleq13

No, but logic does and it denies your claim of reinforcement.

Apparently not. I had thought it willful but I am reconsidering that view.

aa5874

The Virgin Mary could not have spoken to anyone in any language, in 1858, anywhere in the world. And in any event, the Virgin Mary has not been established to have been a real person, at any time in history, based on extant extra-biblical writings.

Now, as to Bernadette Soubrious, an investigation will have to be carried out to verify whether or not she was a real person and if she actually did make those statements about the Virgin Mary, bearing in mind that the entire episode may be totally fictitious.

Agemegos

Indeed. But Pheidippides' contemporaries, the Athenians of fifty years before Herodotus's time, were not so skeptical. As a thank-offering for the panic of the Persian army at Marathon, and in response to what Pheidippides reported Pan had asked,they built a temple to Pan.

Despite Herodotus's incredulity it is established that stories were told of the Greek gods interacting with historical figures in historical time, and not only with legendary heroes in the undefined past. Pheidippides' conversation with Pan can be dated to the day. We know that it is not true, but that isn't the point. It is established that stories of mythological characters' interactions with real people are sometimes told as happening at specified times.