DaBuster

Pliny completed his Natural History in 77 CE. Assuming a date for Luke/Acts in the 70-150 range, Pliny would thus be a near-contemporary of the author of Luke/Acts, and according to his testimony, failure to acknowledge sources was common practice among writers of this time period.

Littlejohn

"..Latin Vulgate Iesus"

It is not correct. You should check the O. T. : the book of Joshua (Yehoshuah in Hebrew). Jerome transliterated with IOSUE not with IESUS! Iosue, in this work, one meet it for more than 110 times.

Iosue is phonetically very similar to English "Joshua" and to the hebraic "Yehoshuah" (Y'oshua). Iesus instead differs greatly from that sound phonetic

Regarding the LXX, see my post "In memory of a 'lemma' disappeared '


http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthr...=247096&page=2 (Littlejohn - 5468063)


Littlejohn
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Littlejohn

No one scholar, until today, has ever thought that perhaps Vespasian applied the treating "technicals" (ie how to remove with much risk the cataracts of a blind) and the "tricks" that someone before that time had taught him...

Littlejohn
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Ben C Smith

Zechariah 3.3 (Masoretic):

ויהושע היה לבש בגדים צואים ועמד לפתי המלאך׃

Zechariah 3.3 (Latin Vulgate):

Et Iesus erat indutus vestibus sordidis et stabat ante faciem angeli.

Zechariah 3.3 (King James Version):

Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

Zechariah 3.3 (La Nuova Diodati):

Or Giosuè era vestito di vesti sudicie, e stava davanti all' angelo.

Ben.

Littlejohn

Even in the NT Jerome transliterate for ONE only time Joshuah with "Iesus." But in the BOOK of JOSHUA, all the occurrences where appears the hebraic Yehoshuah were transliterated with IOSUE (over 110 times!)

Try checking, then you will say me..

(Please, note that I did not have said that you've shown is not true, but only that was not accurate, since missing the reference to the book of Joshua)

Littlejohn
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Ben C Smith

Not once but twice. Acts 7.45 and Hebrews 4.8.

Ben.

Jeffrey Gibson

Are you quite sure that this is a transliteration? And aren't you neglecting the fact that Joshua, a contracted form of Jehoshua (יְהוֹשׁוּעַ, יְהוֹשֻׁעַ, yehoshua), which also appears in the form Jeshua (יְהוֹשֻׁעַ, yeshua, Neh 8:17) comes, as Jerome knew (cf. his translation of Num. 13:17) from הוֹשֵׁעַ, hoshea (cf. Num 13:17) which means "salvation"?

Umm, to my knowledge, the Ionic Greek word Ἰησοῦς is a contracted form of the genitive of the feminine noun Ἰησώ, which is the Ionic name of the Goddess of Healing (see here). The NT (and LXX) Ἰησοῦς is a transliteration of the Heb/Aram yēšû(a)˓, a late form of Hebrew yĕhôšûa˓,.

Nor is there an Attic name Ἰασοῦς. (Please show me where the word is employed as as a masculine nominative singular, let alone is used in this form as a name, in Attic literature. To my knowledge, the word Ἰασοῦς appears once in the extant corpus of Greek literature from Homer through the 3rd century CE, in Pausanius, and there it is the genitive singular of the name of the goddessἸᾱσώ. There is an Attic name Ἰᾱσώ used only of a female, the reputed daughter odf Ascelpius and sister of Hygenia. See, for instance, Aristophanes Plutus701

οὔκ, ἀλλ’ Ἰασὼ μ�*ν τις ἀκολουθοῦσ’ ἅμα
ὑπηρυθρίασε χ�* �*ανάκει’ ἀπεστράφη
τὴν ῥῖν’ ἐπιλαβοῦσ’· οὐ λιβανωτὸν γὰρ βδ�*ω.

See too:

Thucydides Hist 8.28.2.
Paean Erythraeus in Aesculapium 11
Duris Fragmenta 17.1
Athenaeus Soph. Deipn 13.85.13
Lucianus Soph. Abdic 26.5
Achilles Tatius
Leucippe et Clitophon 2.7.5.
Claudius Aelianus De natura animalium 6.15; 8.11.
Flavius Philostratus VA 7.21.24

But so far as I can tell, there is no use in non Jewish/Biblical literature and/or in literature that is not dependent on the LXX and/or the NT of the nominative Ἰησοῦς as a name for a man.

If you have examples of the masculine nominative singular noun Ἰησοῦς being used as a name for someone in "secular" (let alone in pre first century CE "secular" literature), I'd be grateful to see it.

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No, it is not, at least according to LSJ. Ἰᾱσώ, from the verb ἰάομαι, was the name of the Goddess who was the personification of recovery from illness.

And your evidence for this is what? Please cite some texts.

Umm, sorry, but it is not. As I noted above, and as LSJ also note it is a contraction of a feminine noun which was the name of a goddess who was the personification of recovery from illness. See Pausanius 1.34.3.

ἔτι δὲ ̓Ιασου̂ς καὶ ̔Υγείας καὶ ̓Αθηνα̂ς �*αιωνίας

John, do you read Greek?

Jeffrey

Littlejohn

Sorry..... my English dictionary for "correct" give me:

just, EXACT, educated, but not TRUE....

A task that shown an error is not exact..


Littlejohn
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Ben C Smith

The entirety of my post to you consisted of a single quote from an ancient book:

Your response was to boldface one part and call it not correct.

You were (and still are) mistaken. I claimed that in Zechariah 3.3 Jerome uses Iesus for the Hebrew Yehoshuah, and that claim is true, exact, accurate, correct, and not at all in error.

Ben.

ETA: From the American Heritage Dictionary:

cor·rect
adj.
Free from error or fault; true or accurate.

Jeffrey Gibson

Really? To my knowledge (based on a search of TLG E) there is no instance in the entire corpus of extant Greek literature from Homer through the 3rd century CE of the word Ieso (iota epsilon sigma omicron), let alone the use of that word in any dialect as the name of anyone including the goddess Iaso. The ionic form of Iaso's name is - according to LSJ -- Ἰησώ (iota eta sigma omega).

As I've already shown, neither Iesous nor Iasous is a male/masculine, let alone a nominative, form of the Ionic or any other dialect's name of the goddess Iaso. It is the feminine genitive singular (or the feminine vocative or accusative plural) form of Iaso. There is no use in secular Greek literature of Iesous nor Iasous as a name for anyone, let alone a counterpart to the goddess Iaso.

Whoever wrote the above has little to no knowledge of Greek as is evident not only by his/her use of Strongs as an authoritative source, but by his or her wholesale lack of awareness that there are any number of feminine Greek nouns (Iaso!) that have first declension ("masculine" and, BTW, neuter) endings, just as there are second declension masculine nouns.

Jeffrey