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Old 08-04-2008, 07:01 AM   #41
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There is another counterargument too. And that's that the earliet Christians actually didn't think that a physical resurrection had happened and that this was something that only became doctrine decades later. So Jewish or Roman authorities were simply never presented with a need to show a body.

This, IMO, is the real answer. The whole empty tomb/physical resurrection story is the result of later theologizing, not historical information preserved by oral tradition. The earliest gospel, Mark, was written (probably) 30 years after the events - and it doesn't even mention any resurrection appearances. (The last section of canonical Mark, 16:9-20, is absent from some of the earliest manuscripts.) Sure, Mark has the empty tomb story. But Q doesn't, and GThomas doesn't - these early Christians apparently weren't interested in the resurrection in a physical sense. So why should non-Christians have been?
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Old 08-14-2008, 08:40 PM   #42
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I recently read Acts 2 at biblegateway.com, which mosts skeptics cite to argue that the disciples didn't preach the ressurection till seven weeks after the crucifixtion, but I can't find any mention of this time frame in that passage. Does anyone else here see it? What am I missing?
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Old 08-14-2008, 10:54 PM   #43
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I recently read Acts 2 at biblegateway.com, which mosts skeptics cite to argue that the disciples didn't preach the ressurection till seven weeks after the crucifixtion, but I can't find any mention of this time frame in that passage. Does anyone else here see it? What am I missing?
Most skeptics argue that Acts is a much later (mid to late 2nd century) apologetically constructed story in the same category as all the other noncanonical 'acts' style documents. In other words, most skeptics doubt there is any veracity to Acts at all.
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Old 08-15-2008, 12:31 AM   #44
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There is another counterargument too. And that's that the earlier Christians actually didn't think that a physical resurrection had happened and that this was something that only became doctrine decades later. So Jewish or Roman authorities were simply never presented with a need to show a body.
I've wondered about this also.

At times the Gospels seem to go out of their way to emphasize that the post-crucified Jesus was in the flesh as oppose to being a purely spiritual being, as if it had already become an issue with some Christians (e.g. Otherwise why was it important to mention that the post-crucifixion Jesus could eat food?)

If at the time the Gospel of Mark was written some Christians remembered a time when no mention was made of the empty tomb it would make sense for the writer of Mark to tackle this issue.
In this light perhaps the early ending of Mark (at 16:8) makes more sense. i.e. It's telling the reader that the reason you didn't hear about the empty tomb sooner is because the witnesses to this told no one about it for some time (because they were frightened by it).
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Old 08-15-2008, 12:39 AM   #45
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I recently read Acts 2 at biblegateway.com, which mosts skeptics cite to argue that the disciples didn't preach the ressurection till seven weeks after the crucifixtion, but I can't find any mention of this time frame in that passage. Does anyone else here see it? What am I missing?
In Acts 1:3 it says: He [Jesus] presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.

So for 40 days after the resurrection, Jesus was with the apostles telling them what he didn't make clear before his death. Then in Acts 2, at the Pentecost, which is 50 days after Easter, they began preaching.
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Old 08-15-2008, 03:51 AM   #46
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I've read the argument that the Jewish and Roman authorities would have produced Jesus' body if they could have
Perhaps 1000 years from now, Elvis will become a diety in the religion Elvism. Elvangelical Elvists will refer back to the "sightings" of Elvis we hear about now and claim it was evidence that Elvis was resurrected. But no one now is scrambling about now to dig up his bones for DNA testing to be sure he's still dead because no one takes it seriously. Will Elivists of the year 3000 look back and ask why, if Elvis had not been resurrected, opponents of Elvism did not produce the corpse and parade it around the US?
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Old 08-15-2008, 04:50 AM   #47
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I've read the argument that the Jewish and Roman authorities would have produced Jesus' body if they could have
Perhaps 1000 years from now, Elvis will become a diety in the religion Elvism. Elvangelical Elvists will refer back to the "sightings" of Elvis we hear about now and claim it was evidence that Elvis was resurrected. But no one now is scrambling about now to dig up his bones for DNA testing to be sure he's still dead because no one takes it seriously. Will Elivists of the year 3000 look back and ask why, if Elvis had not been resurrected, opponents of Elvism did not produce the corpse and parade it around the US?
Well that's exactly what happened with christianity, since the first two genuine historical christian pilgrims are women related to Constantine. One of them turned up the holy flaming cross upon which Clerk Jesus Kent was given a lethal dose of kryptonite, and the nails - which were used by the Romans to nail our hero thereto. We can be sure of this. Ha ha.

Constantine organised mass christian make-overs of pagan shrines and temples in the most lavish building project in antiquity ever conducted. Every city had its basilica, all replicated from the same mould at at specific epoch in our ancient history.



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Old 08-15-2008, 08:33 AM   #48
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I've read the argument that the Jewish and Roman authorities would have produced Jesus' body if they could have
Perhaps 1000 years from now, Elvis will become a diety in the religion Elvism. Elvangelical Elvists will refer back to the "sightings" of Elvis we hear about now and claim it was evidence that Elvis was resurrected. But no one now is scrambling about now to dig up his bones for DNA testing to be sure he's still dead because no one takes it seriously. Will Elivists of the year 3000 look back and ask why, if Elvis had not been resurrected, opponents of Elvism did not produce the corpse and parade it around the US?
The probable response from skeptics will be to point out that, back in the early 21st century, there WERE no "opponents of Elvism". On the other hand, there apparently were opponents of Christianity.
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Old 08-15-2008, 08:42 AM   #49
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I recently read Acts 2 at biblegateway.com, which mosts skeptics cite to argue that the disciples didn't preach the ressurection till seven weeks after the crucifixtion, but I can't find any mention of this time frame in that passage. Does anyone else here see it? What am I missing?
In Acts 1:3 it says: He [Jesus] presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.

So for 40 days after the resurrection, Jesus was with the apostles telling them what he didn't make clear before his death. Then in Acts 2, at the Pentecost, which is 50 days after Easter, they began preaching.
Thank you.
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Old 08-15-2008, 10:41 AM   #50
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Perhaps 1000 years from now, Elvis will become a diety in the religion Elvism. Elvangelical Elvists will refer back to the "sightings" of Elvis we hear about now and claim it was evidence that Elvis was resurrected. But no one now is scrambling about now to dig up his bones for DNA testing to be sure he's still dead because no one takes it seriously. Will Elivists of the year 3000 look back and ask why, if Elvis had not been resurrected, opponents of Elvism did not produce the corpse and parade it around the US?
The probable response from skeptics will be to point out that, back in the early 21st century, there WERE no "opponents of Elvism". On the other hand, there apparently were opponents of Christianity.
But we have no record (outside the later written gospels) of any opponents of Christianity before the end of the first century, certainly none before the fall of the Temple. The Romans don't seem to have noticed Christianity before then. There is no (Jewish) record of Jewish opposition, although there have been attempts to associate Christians with the minim who were expelled from the synagoges about 90 CE (IIRC).
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