Freethought & Rationalism Archive

No Robots · 05-29-2006, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

What also seems to seep out is your emotional attachment to some as yet undisclosed conventional Christian upbringing.

I was raised a mythicist.

Quote:

I can find useful guidelines for living life and participating in community from a number of sources. Some are known to be historical, others known to be fiction and some are of unknown provenance. How I decide if they are useful is not by either their age nor their popularity, but by how I can use my own intellect to reconcile them to the reality I perceive.

Quite right. That's all I'm doing.

Doug Shaver · 05-29-2006, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

I deny the claim that it is unreasonable, based on the evidence, to assert Christ's historicity.

I have no problem with that. I think reasonable people can justifiably believe he was real.

But I also think that other reasonable people can justifiably doubt that he was real. I don't think the evidence is strong enough to support a claim that belief in either historicism or mythicism is unreasonable. That is not to deny that there are unreasonable people on both sides, but that reflects human failings, not the state of the evidence.

No Robots · 05-29-2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

I have no problem with that. I think reasonable people can justifiably believe he was real.

But I also think that other reasonable people can justifiably doubt that he was real. I don't think the evidence is strong enough to support a claim that belief in either historicism or mythicism is unreasonable. That is not to deny that there are unreasonable people on both sides, but that reflects human failings, not the state of the evidence.

I do think that mythicism is unreasonable, but I am content to live and let live except when historicism is argued against.

Amaleq13 · 05-29-2006, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

I'm not making this up on my own...

That you are following Brunner is irrelevant to the selective nature of the reading.

No Robots · 05-29-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

That you are following Brunner is irrelevant to the selective nature of the reading.

What I am saying is that the reading that I have selected matches my own assessment of the matter, and has the support of authorities.

Amaleq13 · 05-29-2006, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

What I am saying is that the reading that I have selected matches my own assessment of the matter, and has the support of authorities.

Who do you think you're kidding? The reading you have selected matches your personal preference and has the support of the personal preferences of Brunner. As far as I can tell, the only thing Brunner is an authority on is his own opinion.

No Robots · 05-29-2006, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

Who do you think you're kidding? The reading you have selected matches your personal preference and has the support of the personal preferences of Brunner. As far as I can tell, the only thing Brunner is an authority on is his own opinion.

I would be happy to provide additional references. Here is one from Spinoza (TTP):

A man who can by pure intuition comprehend ideas which are neither contained in nor deducible from the foundations of our natural knowledge, must necessarily possess a mind far superior to those of his fellow men, nor do I believe that any have been so endowed save Christ.

You may also want to look at the entire passage from Brunner where you will find his supporting citations.

Amaleq13 · 05-29-2006, 09:19 PM

The number of people you can find who join you in selectively reading the texts to confirm personal beliefs about Jesus doesn't change the subjective nature of the efforts. I find Spinoza's expressed opinion of Jesus to be just as subjectively biased as yours and Brunner's.

Doug Shaver · 05-30-2006, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

I do think that mythicism is unreasonable

It is obvious that you think so. What is not obvious is that you have a good reason to think so.

No Robots · 05-30-2006, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

The number of people you can find who join you in selectively reading the texts to confirm personal beliefs about Jesus doesn't change the subjective nature of the efforts. I find Spinoza's expressed opinion of Jesus to be just as subjectively biased as yours and Brunner's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

It is obvious that you think so. What is not obvious is that you have a good reason to think so.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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05-29-2006, 09:19 PM	#488
Amaleq13 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 7,816	The number of people you can find who join you in selectively reading the texts to confirm personal beliefs about Jesus doesn't change the subjective nature of the efforts. I find Spinoza's expressed opinion of Jesus to be just as subjectively biased as yours and Brunner's.

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