Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MythFree · 06-20-2006, 03:58 PM

The least intelligent but healthy person on the planet can communicate with you in some manner.
You can observe a sick or mentally challenged person and recognize their existence.

Many animals can communicate in various ways with you and you can always see they exist.

You can observe some of the smallest microorganisms under a microscope and see they exist.

We can even see the radiation from the original expansion of our universe.

But the alleged most powerful being in reality and the alleged creator of reality...
cannot say 'Hi' to you, wave at you, or become visible...
does this make ANY sense?......c'mon.

He is more impotent than bacteria or the smallest insect...does this make ANY sense?
Just like Santa, both are comforting ideas at times but both are fictional constructs of the human imagination.

MrWhy · 06-20-2006, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MythFree

But the alleged most powerful being in reality and the alleged creator of reality... cannot say 'Hi' to you, wave at you, or become visible... [B]does this make ANY sense[/B

You're right on. Just another of the many "god" anomalies. The idea that there is a powerful creator that cannot, or will not communicate directly with its creation is nonsense. Oh, and the argument that it would not work, or not be in our best interest is what theist offer as an explanation. Also nonsense.

Wisdumb · 06-20-2006, 05:58 PM

I think you're struggling with this because your idea of God, or at least how it was presented to you when you were growing up could quite possibly be flawed. If you think of God as being a seperate entity, such as a bearded man sitting on a throne in heaven then you will never believe in a God. If you instead consider the possiblility that God is in fact everything and everywhere, such as the "smallest microorganisms under a microscope" or a person or a tree then perhaps that can widen your interpretation of what God is. Sure reading the Bible may seem to contradict this statement. For instance, when God was described as walking with Adam in the garden, it was most likely a metaphor, just as the entire garden of eden story may have all been. I think thats what Jesus was talking about when he spoke about the Kingdom of Heaven. He never mentioned the word heaven. He did not mention us going to heaven and having face time with God, but instead a Kingdom of Heaven on earth in which people centered their lives around love etc. Even Buddhists believe in an energy that regulates everything included the placement of our souls in reincarnation. We are all apart of one system, one God. But i could be wrong....lol. No one really knows

MythFree · 06-20-2006, 08:25 PM

Quote:

because your idea of God, or at least how it was presented to you when you were growing up could quite possibly be flawed.

The flaw is trhe whole concept and word "God'.
It's amazing how people want to hold on to that word no matter what.

We try to redefine the word 'God' so we can keep it...
well 'God' is everything...
no, everything is everything we don't need to replace the word with 'God'.
well 'God' is consciousness....
no, consciousness is consciousness we don't need to replace the word and concept with the word 'God' to keep it in our collective experience.

Life is life.
Consciousness is consciousness.
And 'God' is an ancient mythological concept invented before our brains were capable of understanding the math and science of our reality.

aa5874 · 06-20-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWhy

You're right on. Just another of the many "god" anomalies. The idea that there is a powerful creator that cannot, or will not communicate directly with its creation is nonsense. Oh, and the argument that it would not work, or not be in our best interest is what theist offer as an explanation. Also nonsense.

It's more absurd when you read in the book of John14:12, 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me , the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father'.

That claim has not come true. All miracles have ceased. No dead has been raised.

Believers have erroneously stated that only faith is necessary, when the book of John claims the believers themselves should be raising the dead and healig the sick, so that the unbelievers will know that their God is real.

Wisdumb · 06-20-2006, 09:44 PM

The flaw is trhe whole concept and word "God'.
It's amazing how people want to hold on to that word no matter what.

We try to redefine the word 'God' so we can keep it...
well 'God' is everything...
no, everything is everything we don't need to replace the word with 'God'.
well 'God' is consciousness....
no, consciousness is consciousness we don't need to replace the word and concept with the word 'God' to keep it in our collective experience.

Life is life.
Consciousness is consciousness.
And 'God' is an ancient mythological concept invented before our brains were capable of understanding the math and science of our reality.

I completely see where you're coming from and the same thoughts have no doubt entered my mind on many occasions but......
If its all about having to see to believe then its kind of like giving up the search before you even start. If you were never searching to begin with and completely dismiss the idea of God, than isn't that just the same as blindly believing in God and not questioning his/her/its existence? I think we should be opened to everything and anything as rational beings. Plus look around you man, even science points towards something resembling God even if its not what they would call it. Scientist located a God part of the brain which is essentially a portion of the brain that humans possess that is associated with thinking of a higher power or a God. So even people in remote towns, seperated from everything have this God part of the brain. I'm not trying to convince you, just telling you that it is possible. I wouldn;t put all my faith in science and math as you said because even those are wrong most of the time as history has shown. Theories taught in universities for decades and centuries are disproved all the time.
"And 'God' is an ancient mythological concept invented before our brains were capable of understanding the math and science of our reality"
You would be surprised how much math and science came about as a result of reaching deeper religious understanding. Without this emphasis on God i dont think we would be enjoying many of the advances in technology and science we have now. I don't blindly believe in God, I struggle with it myself but the day I close myself to the possiblity is the day I'll ignore a part of existence that is unavoidable not just in terms of going against the grain of society but also in terms of my own consciousness.

MythFree · 06-20-2006, 10:10 PM

I've been through those religious stages and grew out of them when I could open my eyes in an unbiased way to see what's here. It took me a long time to clear the cobwebs.

In man's early stages we needed 'gods' and 'magic' to explain the things our minds weren't equipped to comprehend, but now our conceptual thinking has evolved to the point and we have the language (math and science) to redefine what was formerly clumped together under 'mysterious', 'God', and 'magic'.

EarlOfLade · 06-21-2006, 10:32 AM

I have never been in a situation, seen anything that would require a god. I have never seen anything that anyone has pointed to and said: "See, that was made by a god" Nothing. Every little atom I see around was created in the core of a star somewhere in the universe by a process that is very easy to understand.
I wish someone could explain to me the practical purpose of a god because I have never found one.

MythFree · 06-21-2006, 11:18 AM

Right on EOL!
The whole 'God' thing is transference created by our 'helpless infant imprint'.

Wisdumb · 06-21-2006, 12:34 PM

well since you guys think science and math are it, well sorry to say it but even math and science are wrong because they are not accurate and can never be accurate. For instance, we are called homo sapiens because we possess certain similair biolgical traits. But as science has shown, no two things in the universe are 100% the same, therefore, the concept of humanity is just a representation not an accurate description. No two things in the world are exactly the same that includes people, animals, trees, atoms, etc. Based on this any science or math that proposes universal laws is incorrect by this definition. Even 1 + 1=2 is only symbolic. Because 2 implies that 1 and 1 are the same when in fact they can never be. example 1 apple plus 1 apple is 2 apples. That is not true because no two apples are the same, we only label them apples because they share just enough characteritics to be labeled what we define as apples. Sure science and math are better than nothing but to say that they are the supreme authority on anything is rediculous. When Newton came along and changed the physics world no one ever thought a man like einstein would come along and fix his theroies because no one ever questioned it. We will live forever constantly correcting the people that came before us only to realize we will never know the answers for sure whether it be through religion or science or math. So i guess we're all wrong and we're all right.

06-20-2006, 03:58 PM	#1
MythFree Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: US Posts: 543	'God' and 'Santa' Are Both Just Words. The least intelligent but healthy person on the planet can communicate with you in some manner. You can observe a sick or mentally challenged person and recognize their existence. Many animals can communicate in various ways with you and you can always see they exist. You can observe some of the smallest microorganisms under a microscope and see they exist. We can even see the radiation from the original expansion of our universe. But the alleged most powerful being in reality and the alleged creator of reality... cannot say 'Hi' to you, wave at you, or become visible... does this make ANY sense?......c'mon. He is more impotent than bacteria or the smallest insect...does this make ANY sense? Just like Santa, both are comforting ideas at times but both are fictional constructs of the human imagination.

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06-20-2006, 05:58 PM	#3
Wisdumb Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: United States Posts: 103	I think you're struggling with this because your idea of God, or at least how it was presented to you when you were growing up could quite possibly be flawed. If you think of God as being a seperate entity, such as a bearded man sitting on a throne in heaven then you will never believe in a God. If you instead consider the possiblility that God is in fact everything and everywhere, such as the "smallest microorganisms under a microscope" or a person or a tree then perhaps that can widen your interpretation of what God is. Sure reading the Bible may seem to contradict this statement. For instance, when God was described as walking with Adam in the garden, it was most likely a metaphor, just as the entire garden of eden story may have all been. I think thats what Jesus was talking about when he spoke about the Kingdom of Heaven. He never mentioned the word heaven. He did not mention us going to heaven and having face time with God, but instead a Kingdom of Heaven on earth in which people centered their lives around love etc. Even Buddhists believe in an energy that regulates everything included the placement of our souls in reincarnation. We are all apart of one system, one God. But i could be wrong....lol. No one really knows

06-20-2006, 09:44 PM	#6
Wisdumb Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: United States Posts: 103	The flaw is trhe whole concept and word "God'. It's amazing how people want to hold on to that word no matter what. We try to redefine the word 'God' so we can keep it... well 'God' is everything... no, everything is everything we don't need to replace the word with 'God'. well 'God' is consciousness.... no, consciousness is consciousness we don't need to replace the word and concept with the word 'God' to keep it in our collective experience. Life is life. Consciousness is consciousness. And 'God' is an ancient mythological concept invented before our brains were capable of understanding the math and science of our reality. I completely see where you're coming from and the same thoughts have no doubt entered my mind on many occasions but...... If its all about having to see to believe then its kind of like giving up the search before you even start. If you were never searching to begin with and completely dismiss the idea of God, than isn't that just the same as blindly believing in God and not questioning his/her/its existence? I think we should be opened to everything and anything as rational beings. Plus look around you man, even science points towards something resembling God even if its not what they would call it. Scientist located a God part of the brain which is essentially a portion of the brain that humans possess that is associated with thinking of a higher power or a God. So even people in remote towns, seperated from everything have this God part of the brain. I'm not trying to convince you, just telling you that it is possible. I wouldn;t put all my faith in science and math as you said because even those are wrong most of the time as history has shown. Theories taught in universities for decades and centuries are disproved all the time. "And 'God' is an ancient mythological concept invented before our brains were capable of understanding the math and science of our reality" You would be surprised how much math and science came about as a result of reaching deeper religious understanding. Without this emphasis on God i dont think we would be enjoying many of the advances in technology and science we have now. I don't blindly believe in God, I struggle with it myself but the day I close myself to the possiblity is the day I'll ignore a part of existence that is unavoidable not just in terms of going against the grain of society but also in terms of my own consciousness.

06-20-2006, 10:10 PM	#7
MythFree Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: US Posts: 543	I've been through those religious stages and grew out of them when I could open my eyes in an unbiased way to see what's here. It took me a long time to clear the cobwebs. In man's early stages we needed 'gods' and 'magic' to explain the things our minds weren't equipped to comprehend, but now our conceptual thinking has evolved to the point and we have the language (math and science) to redefine what was formerly clumped together under 'mysterious', 'God', and 'magic'.

06-21-2006, 10:32 AM	#8
EarlOfLade Banned Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 5,310	I have never been in a situation, seen anything that would require a god. I have never seen anything that anyone has pointed to and said: "See, that was made by a god" Nothing. Every little atom I see around was created in the core of a star somewhere in the universe by a process that is very easy to understand. I wish someone could explain to me the practical purpose of a god because I have never found one.

06-21-2006, 11:18 AM	#9
MythFree Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: US Posts: 543	Right on EOL! The whole 'God' thing is transference created by our 'helpless infant imprint'.

06-21-2006, 12:34 PM	#10
Wisdumb Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: United States Posts: 103	well since you guys think science and math are it, well sorry to say it but even math and science are wrong because they are not accurate and can never be accurate. For instance, we are called homo sapiens because we possess certain similair biolgical traits. But as science has shown, no two things in the universe are 100% the same, therefore, the concept of humanity is just a representation not an accurate description. No two things in the world are exactly the same that includes people, animals, trees, atoms, etc. Based on this any science or math that proposes universal laws is incorrect by this definition. Even 1 + 1=2 is only symbolic. Because 2 implies that 1 and 1 are the same when in fact they can never be. example 1 apple plus 1 apple is 2 apples. That is not true because no two apples are the same, we only label them apples because they share just enough characteritics to be labeled what we define as apples. Sure science and math are better than nothing but to say that they are the supreme authority on anything is rediculous. When Newton came along and changed the physics world no one ever thought a man like einstein would come along and fix his theroies because no one ever questioned it. We will live forever constantly correcting the people that came before us only to realize we will never know the answers for sure whether it be through religion or science or math. So i guess we're all wrong and we're all right.

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