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Old 08-03-2003, 05:55 PM   #11
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Originally posted by Peter Kirby
Everyone, the name is Paula Fredriksen.

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Peter Kirby
You may edit any misspellings. Thanks.
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Old 08-03-2003, 08:13 PM   #12
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Originally posted by Layman
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Of course, I have the advantage of reading the orignal report demanding changes in the script. Have you?
From Dramatizing the Death of Jesus in the OP:

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. . . In addition, the general counsel for the USCCB requested that we return the scripts that had been sent to us from the USCCB and to refrain from commenting on the contents of the screenplay we reviewed. We have returned the scripts as requested and have not released the contents of our confidential evaluation of it that was sent to Mr. Gibson. Contrary to a recent media report, we have not apologized to Icon or anyone else for evaluating the script. Neither have we "withdrawn" it. We stand by it.
What are you trying to tell me, Layman?
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Old 08-04-2003, 12:32 AM   #13
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From Dramatizing the Death of Jesus in the OP:



What are you trying to tell me, Layman?
Yes, from what I understand the NCCB participants has been more cooperative in returning the script. Note that the scholars listed in the article are only four of the eight on the committee.
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Old 08-04-2003, 12:33 AM   #14
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No - do you have a link to it?
No, I do not believe it is available on the internet.
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Old 08-04-2003, 12:37 AM   #15
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I see I was unclear. They say that "have not released the contents of our confidential evaluation of it that was sent to Mr. Gibson." They are writing as Catholics but there is no indication that the Jewish scholars are at odds with them on strategy.

Where did you find a copy?
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Old 08-04-2003, 09:25 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toto
I see I was unclear. They say that "have not released the contents of our confidential evaluation of it that was sent to Mr. Gibson." They are writing as Catholics but there is no indication that the Jewish scholars are at odds with them on strategy.

Where did you find a copy?
I'm not sure what you mean by "strategy." You seemed to be absolving the group of wrongdoing because they claim they have returned the stolen manuscript and/or its copies. I merely pointed out that only some of the scholars have claimed to have done so--the Catholic ones.

Do not fret, there was nothing inappropriate about the copy I reviewed or how it was obtained.
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Old 08-04-2003, 10:19 AM   #17
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You keep trying to spin this to put some blame on the scholars. None of them seem to think that they solicited or received a "stolen" copy.

It's just a way of diverting attention from the question of anti-Semitism and the connection between Passion Plays and the pogroms that paved the way for the Holocaust. I think some arguments can be made against Fredriksen's position on the grounds that social conditions are different now, but there has been an upsurge in anti-Semitism in Europe lately. I don't think that the issue is trivial.
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Old 08-04-2003, 10:24 AM   #18
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Toto
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You keep trying to spin this to put some blame on the scholars. None of them seem to think that they solicited or received a "stolen" copy.
Where do any of them deny receiving a stolen copy of the manuscript? All the reports I've seen they either dodge the issue, admit its unauthorized, but argue they thought Gibson "knew" they had it.

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It's just a way of diverting attention from the question of anti-Semitism and the connection between Passion Plays and the pogroms that paved the way for the Holocaust. I think some arguments can be made against Fredriksen's position on the grounds that social conditions are different now, but there has been an upsurge in anti-Semitism in Europe lately. I don't think that the issue is trivial.
Manuscript theft is a serious issue. Especially when its an earlier version. As for the film causing anti-Semitism, that's a scurilous charge. You know as well as I do that Europe is almost completely secularized, except for the growing Islamic immigrant community. And its mainly Islamic fundies in Europe who have been responsible for the uptick. Though I agree that the leftist European governments haven't done enough to stop it.
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Old 08-04-2003, 11:01 AM   #19
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No one claims that the film would cause anti-Semitism, only that it would feed into an underlying strain of anti-Semitism that predates Christianity.

Pointing out the historical inaccuracies in the film's sources seems like useful work for theologians.

I think that both the Catholic scholars and Fredriksen have dealt with the "stolen manuscript" red herring.
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Old 08-04-2003, 11:53 AM   #20
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Originally posted by Toto
No one claims that the film would cause anti-Semitism, only that it would feed into an underlying strain of anti-Semitism that predates Christianity.
I disagree with you that no on claims this.

Quote:
Pointing out the historical inaccuracies in the film's sources seems like useful work for theologians.
I have my own problems with the film, such as having the Romans speak latin instead of Greek. But I haven't framed my concerns on a stolen manuscript and attempted to dictate changes in the film under the threat of a PR war.

Quote:
I think that both the Catholic scholars and Fredriksen have dealt with the "stolen manuscript" red herring.
I agree that the Catholic scholars did, by returning the manuscript(s). Fredrikesen, to my knowledge, has not. Nor have the ADL participants.

Some seem to think that because they are scholars they were entitled to exploit stolen property. I disagree with that very strongly.
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