Sheshbazzar

I would say, looking at past 'Christian conduct', and being personally and painfully aware of the level ignorance and hatred harbored by so many Christian 'good-ol boy's' here in the Bible Belt, that Archarya S's paranoia is well founded.
The white Protestant Klan would love to show off it's love for Jebus, God, and Country by lynching and burning her blasphemous atheist ass as an example to all those N***** loving Jewish Catholic commie atheists.

MCalavera

Honest homework?

That's classic ... coming from someone whose theories on Christianity are just as bad and lacking in evidence as Acharya's.

mountainman

So your claim is that I am dishonest because after a detailed and dishonest review of all the evidence of the first five centuries my conclusions are diametrically opposed to an HJ? Am I dealing with an Honest Believer who has no certainty but Honesty?

MCalavera

Your homework is dishonest, yes.

As for me, I try to be as honest as I can be.

mountainman

A summary of your argument to date appears to be that people who think there was no HJ are thinking dishonestly while those who think that there was an HJ are thinking as honestly as they can think? That's very impressive rhetoric. Let me know when you're ready to apply this rhetoric to address any items of evidence admissible to the field of ancient history in support of either side.

For example the letter Jesus wrote to King Agbar.

Dave31

More mythology in the bible:

GakuseiDon

Dave, thanks for the link to Acharya S's comments on the "Samson" seal. Looking at her "Christ Conspiracy", do you think the Samsom solar myth originated from one of the ancient advanced global cultures? She quotes "Velikovskian David Talbott" on the movement from "Saturn" to "El" as "change in the heavens [that] could reflect a pole or axial shift", and, since cataclysm destroyed many of the ancient advanced global cultures, do you think the Samson solar myth was spread by one of those ancient advanced global cultures?

From Acharya S's "The Christ Conspiracy" (my bold below):

Also in Job, a book replete with celestial imagery, the author portrays the Lord as he who “described a circle upon the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness. The pillars of heaven tremble . . . his hand pierced the fleeing serpent.” In mythology the heavens are depicted as an “abyss of waters,” so this scripture is reference to the zodiacal circle, “described” or drawn by God. The “boundary between light and darkness” is, naturally, the horizon, and the trembling “pillars of heaven” are the same held up by Samson, the “bright sun.” In addition, “his hand piercing the fleeing serpent” could refer to the Egyptian god Set/Seth, the constellation of Serpens, or the sky itself; however, this last part could also be translated as the “crooked serpent” who does not flee but is formed by the Lord’s hand, representing Scorpio. Of this mysterious and clearly astrological work attributed to Job, Anderson says, “... the whole book is a complete description of the Masonic ceremonies or Egyptian Masonry, or trial of the dead by Osiris...”

... the Egyptian culture seemingly appeared out of nowhere at a high level of development, as did the Sumero-Mesopotamian and South American. This fact is explainable if the civilizers were advanced groups coming from elsewhere, from lands that had been destroyed by climatic change, war or other cataclysm...

Throughout this demonstration of a global civilization has persisted a recurring theme, found in fact and in legend: cataclysm... During the Quaternary Period (2.5 million to 10,000 years ago), when man allegedly made his appearance, one-fourth of the land’s surface was purportedly under ice, which certainly would have destroyed nearly all traces of any number of advanced cultures.

This cataclysm and others apparently made it into the mythos, reflected by, as Giorgio de Santillana and Hancock evinced, “Hamlet’s Mill” myths about the symbolic hourglass or mill shape made by the precession of the equinoxes and its “derangement.” The mill motif is also found in the biblical tale of Samson, and, as Hancock says, “The theme resurfaces in Japan, in Central America, among the Maoris of New Zealand, and in the myths of Finland.”

Velikovskian David Talbott says Isaiah “locates the throne of El in the farthest reaches north,” i.e., El/Saturn is the pole star. When Saturn was no longer the “central sun,” “El” became the daytime solar orb; hence, El/Saturn was both the planet and the sun. This change in the heavens could reflect a pole or axial shift.

If the theme of cataclysm (also found in the Samson solar myth) can be found in Japan, Central America, the Maoris and Finland, then it was either spread by one of the global advanced cultures, or it was the result of post-cataclysm (local) cultures recording a world-wide cataclysm. Is that reasoning sound?

Dave31

Hello GakuseiDon, according to Acharya and her Errata page she has not agreed with Velikovskian David Talbott for like 10 years now. I don't think she ever really did adhere to that in the first place; as explained to you many times before, she included some topics in the last chapter of that book just to bring up as topics for further investigation.

Also, her new 2nd edition to Christ Conspiracy has grown considerably and because of that it will apparently not include a few chapters, one being: "Evidence of an Ancient Global Civilization"

http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/...p=23849#p23849

Rather than constantly trying to distort what she has actually said for like 8 years now, perhaps it's time for a new obsession?

GakuseiDon

Dave31, thanks for the links. I'm careful to quote Acharya S. If she has changed her mind based on new evidence, then it is to her credit. But she doesn't appear to have changed her mind on the "ancient advanced global civilization"; rather, as she states: "There is much new material".

I don't think you understand the importance of the "ancient advanced global civilization" idea to her theories expressed in "The Christ Conspiracy". As you know, she does stress the similarities of religious ideas throughout the world. For example, from "The Christ Conspiracy" (my bold):

Furthermore, the very ancient Buddhist religion is found in many parts of the world, as noted. As Robertson says, “Singularly suggestive of Buddhist contacts . . . are a number of Mexican sculptures; many figures of Quetzalcoatl are practically identical with the established type of Buddha.” As we have seen, the religion of Quetzalcoatl is nearly identical in many aspects to that of Jesus, with a savior born of a virgin who is tempted and fasts 40 days, and who dies and is to return in a Second Coming...

Now, note that there aren't just religious/cultural similarities. Acharya S points out **linguistic** similarities between cultures around the world as well. She finds these similarities as both "startling" and "demonstrated". As she writes (my emphasis below):

The linguistical/etymological evidence that connects the world is startling and has been demonstrated throughout this book. Mainly, however, our analysis has been confined to the “Old World.” We have already seen some dazzling examples of how the languages of both worlds are related. As a basic example, the word “Mama” and/or “Ma” meaning mother is found in numerous cultures around the globe. A more complex etymological similarity can been found in the Mexican name Mexitli or Mesitli, meaning “the Anointed One,” obviously related to the Egyptian Messu and the Hebrew Messiah. In Maya, “balaam” is a priest, while in Hebrew it is the name of a prophet. There are in fact numerous correlations between the ancient Mexican language and that of the Middle East, including the Sumerian. Indeed, the Mexican culture has close parallels in art, religion and language to Sumer as well....

The list goes on and includes cultures from the South Seas to North Europe as well.

While one might look at the sun and observe it entering the zodiac at 30° and so conclude that one of the characteristics of the “Sun of God” is that he begins his ministry at “age” 30 (which Acharya S states below), you don't look up at the sun and get the New World word "Mexitli", the Egyptian word "Messu" and the Hebrew word "Messiah". So how to explain the similarities? Are they significant or are they mere coincidence?

On the characteristics of the "sun god": from "The Christ Conspiracy" (not a complete list) (my bold below):

Within the Sun Book or Holy Bible was incorporated by such priestcraft the most consolidated version of the celestial mythos ever assembled: the story of the “son of God.”... Jesus Christ and the others upon whom he is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the gospel fable is merely a repeat of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens...

The following are the main characteristics of the “sun of God”:

• The sun “dies” for three days at the winter solstice, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th.
• The sun of God is “born of a virgin,” which refers to both the new or “virgin” moon and the constellation of Virgo.
• The sun’s “birth” is attended by the “bright Star,” either Sirius/Sothis or the planet Venus, and by the “Three Kings,” representing the three stars in the belt of Orion.
• The sun at its zenith, or 12 noon, is in the house or heavenly temple of the “Most High”; thus, “he” begins “his Father’s work” at “age” 12.
• The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30°; hence, the “Sun of God” begins his ministry at “age” 30.
• The sun is the “Carpenter” who builds his daily “houses” or 12 two-hour divisions.
• The sun’s “followers” or “disciples” are the 12 signs of the zodiac, through which the sun must pass.
• The sun is “anointed” when its rays dip into the sea.
• The sun “changes water into wine” by creating rain, ripening the grape on the vine and fermenting the grape juice.
• The sun “walks on water,” referring to its reflection.
• The sun “calms the sea” as he rests in the “boat of heaven".
• When the sun is annually and monthly re-born, he brings life to the “solar mummy,” his previous self, raising it from the dead.
• The sun triumphantly “rides an ass and her foal” into the “City of Peace” when it enters the sign of Cancer, which contains two stars called “little asses,” and reaches its fullness.
• The sun is the “Lion” when in Leo, the hottest time of the year, called the “throne of the Lord.”
• The sun is “betrayed” by the constellation of the Scorpion, backbiter, the time of the year when the solar hero loses his strength.
• The sun is “crucified” between the two thieves of Sagittarius and Capricorn.
• The sun does a “stutter-step” at the winter solstice, unsure whether to return to life or “resurrect,” doubted by his “twin” Thomas.
• The sun wears a corona, “crown of thorns” or halo.
• The sun is the Word or Logos of God.

tanya

As gakusei, student, is Japanese, not English, so too, "messiah" is English, not Hebrew.

According to me, (and no one else "in this dark world and wide"--to quote, and honor, John Milton, biblical scholar), the Greek word Μεσσίας, (source of our English word "messiah",) in turn, originates NOT with the Hebrew word "mashiakh" (i.e. anointed), but rather with the Hebrew word "moshiah"--saviour.

My argument is based on two points: 1. phonemic, 2. historical. Neither one is accepted by the cognoscenti of the forum, but, nevertheless, they will agree with me, I think, that "messiah" is not Hebrew.