Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Keith&Co. · 07-08-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Self-Mutation

A metaphor? I thought you atheists said "just read the bible and don't interpret"

No, we say 'stop saying it's a metaphor for no fucking reason except that it couldn't possibly be true.'

We're fine with the idea that there are metaphors and parables in the text.

we just notice that there's no objective way to always determine which parts the authors meant as metaphor and which parts were meant to be literal. So the bleevers tend to use the metaphor defense a whole fucking lot.

Plus, metaphors compare similar things. That's why they're metaphors. So if i say 'the earth is round like a pancake' or 'the earth is round like an abelskivver,' those are two distinct metaphors (similies). It's just that one is a hell of a lot more accurate.

ApostateAbe · 07-08-2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Self-Mutation

Mark 2: 16-17

And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?

17When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Jesus makes A LOT of sense here, almost too much sense. And he hit the nail right on the head.

When you are well, how many call a doctor? No one that I know. You only call the doctor when you are sick, do you not? Jesus knew this as well.

Likewise, Jesus was trying to help the nonbelieving sinners come to repentance.

But, the atheist has an even bigger problem when trying to explain away this verse as mere myth.

If the writer of this text was a Jew, he would've been KILLED by possibly being STONED TO DEATH or CRUCIFIED. Why would a Jew risk his life by making crazy fancy tales of Jesus eating with sinners? The Jews NEVER associated with sinners and viewed them as unclean.

The moment any word got around of Jews eating with sinners, the governor would've had them PUT TO DEATH for craziness and stupidity.

Unless of course....the story is true.....

I don't think that the verse is mere myth, and it is probably an accurate perspective on the original Jesus. I don't know that craziness and stupidity was a punishment worthy of death, so you maybe you should revise your argument a little, or at least provide evidence.

Thor Q. Mada · 07-08-2009, 11:37 PM

Slowly getting fed-up with all of this nonsense. The maximum havoc for the world has been caused by the people from the Mid-East area and this since the last 3,000 years. Anybody wondering why a devine being would seek to spread his law (on stone tablets by the way, pocket edition I guess) to a bunch of dirty unwashed flee ridden goat herders, most likely hallucinating, in the desert, and then later to a merchant in a small town in Arabia, (this time a more portable version) while he could have chosen at least 3 far more advanced civilisations for spreading his word. It is outright totally rediculous. Till this day we are influenced by these fanatics in everything we do.
Why the hell do we take this?? Can we not give them their own planet and leave the more enlightened in peace??
And for what concerns the notion that jesus came for me, I respectfully would say: No thank you I am fine.

bacht · 07-09-2009, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Self-Mutation

The "50, 60, 70, 80 years" thing is just a guess made by atheistic scholars who don't want the Gospels to be true.

There really is no evidence when they were written. it is just as logical for me to say they were written in 35 AD. Most serious scholars place Saul's conversion at 33 AD. What did Paul see?

Paul never claims to have met Jesus or any of his associates before his own conversion. In Galatians he says he arrived at the truth through revelation and instruction from early Christians in Syria.

1 Cor 15.3-8
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
Then he appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.

According to this (controversial) passage no-one saw a living Jesus, only a risen Christ.

braces_for_impact · 07-09-2009, 08:28 AM

I remember a quote from somewhere, about how it's amusing that God (and maybe the bible) always happen to follow the personal beliefs of the follower, or something to that extent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Self-Mutation.
A metaphor? I thought you atheists said "just read the bible and don't interpret"

What you did is interpret it as a metaphor. I read it for what it was.

I would say it must be exhausting making all those mental gymnastics, but as a prior Christian, I remember how easy it actually was. Reinterpret as you like to coincide with your already established beliefs...check!

How incredibly nonsensical it all looks from the other side of the fence. <Shakes head>

Roger Pearse · 07-09-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Self-Mutation

Mark 2: 16-17

And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?

And his disciples replied, "What-eth do-eth you-eth say-eth? Speak English-eth."

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Gospel · 07-09-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braces_for_impact

Matthew 15:22-28 (New International Version)

22A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession."

23Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."

24He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

25The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.

26He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

27"Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table."

28Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Strange how this verse shows Jesus claiming he only came for the lost sheep of Israel & then making himself a liar.
:wave:

Back Again · 07-10-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gospel

Quote:

Originally Posted by braces_for_impact

Matthew 15:22-28 (New International Version)

22A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession."

23Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."

24He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

25The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.

26He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

27"Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table."

28Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Strange how this verse shows Jesus claiming he only came for the lost sheep of Israel & then making himself a liar.
:wave:

Not sure since we are reading an English translation. Could it not be rhetoric? (ha ha ha sorry, couldn't resist)

"Was I not sent only to the lost sheep of Israel?"
"Should one take bread from their children and give it to the dogs?"

EDIT: Regardless, her answer was that irrespective of why Jesus was sent, he had power to spare. He agreed.

Joan of Bark · 07-11-2009, 08:38 PM

S-M, you've read the gospels, so you must be well aware that Jesus makes a number of derogatory remarks about gentiles. The Matthew 15 verse summarizes his feelings for his mission on Earth: He was sent for the 'lost sheep of Israel', ie the Jews, not for their 'dogs', ie the gentiles. The woman in question accepts His view in order to procure life for her daughter; that is, she accepted his metaphor and kissed His ass.

Paul invented Christianity. Jesus was just another Jewish prophet preaching to his fellow Jews.

Solo · 07-11-2009, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Self-Mutation

He said it's not right to give bread that children eat to the dogs. I fail to see how he was calling people dogs.

It's more important for humans to eat than dogs.

Obviously you don't read this right: Jesus said he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel, so these were not human children but lambs. :huh:

Jiri

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

07-08-2009, 11:37 PM	#33
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	Slowly getting fed-up with all of this nonsense. The maximum havoc for the world has been caused by the people from the Mid-East area and this since the last 3,000 years. Anybody wondering why a devine being would seek to spread his law (on stone tablets by the way, pocket edition I guess) to a bunch of dirty unwashed flee ridden goat herders, most likely hallucinating, in the desert, and then later to a merchant in a small town in Arabia, (this time a more portable version) while he could have chosen at least 3 far more advanced civilisations for spreading his word. It is outright totally rediculous. Till this day we are influenced by these fanatics in everything we do. Why the hell do we take this?? Can we not give them their own planet and leave the more enlightened in peace?? And for what concerns the notion that jesus came for me, I respectfully would say: No thank you I am fine.

07-11-2009, 08:38 PM	#39
Joan of Bark Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pua, in northern Thailand Posts: 2,823	S-M, you've read the gospels, so you must be well aware that Jesus makes a number of derogatory remarks about gentiles. The Matthew 15 verse summarizes his feelings for his mission on Earth: He was sent for the 'lost sheep of Israel', ie the Jews, not for their 'dogs', ie the gentiles. The woman in question accepts His view in order to procure life for her daughter; that is, she accepted his metaphor and kissed His ass. Paul invented Christianity. Jesus was just another Jewish prophet preaching to his fellow Jews.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.