stephan huller

The real question that should also be answered is whether Christianity in its most primitive form had any real relationship with the form that later became successful in the Greek speaking world. For instance the Alexandrian Church is mostly developed from a mystic textual hermeneutic in concert with the magical efficacy of certain rites and prayers. Do we really imagine that the original Palestinian religion was similarly constructed? I don't think it is necessarily so. I am still convinced the word 'gospel' is Aramaic but I am not sure that Greek and Palestinian Christianity are directly related to one another.

To this end, whatever took place in Palestine developed and died probably before 140 CE (so Hegesippus). What takes over in Jerusalem is a Gentile Church after the Bar Kochba revolt. Again I am not sure these two traditions are directly related.

sotto voce

That's changing the subject, isn't it.

I seem to have convinced, again.

outhouse

and what do you have to base that on???


any real scholarships or valid or credible historians??

outhouse

to me, a 1000 seems pretty dang high for a movement failed in judaism.

By 40 were still talking about a sect in judaism, and christians would not apply at all. I dont think there were 1000 in 60, and a number that high would be attribuited to paul.


But this does need clarification on why the movement gained so much ground so quickly. And the movement in term's and use of the word christian needs to be clarified.

christians is a later term for one, and early on we only had jews, then jewish christians, before having full on christians which for all purposes would be a second century term.

The reason the movement looked so large and gained steam so fast from the very beginning could be attributed to the temple events with the large crowds that would have generated a enormous amount of oral tradition within judaism.

having oral tradition and followers or believers so to speak, are two different things.

We know the movement was large enough that temple authorities hired paul to hunt these people down, how large is up for debate as they would have wanted to crush this, even as a small sect. But again the temple could have seen this as a threat just based on the oral traditions generated despite only a handful of followers.

Sheshbazzar

Because Justin was trained in Platonic philosophy, and admiringly and repeatedly referenced ideas from the philosopher Plato in his writings.

Justin also held that earlier pre-Christian era philosophers who did not know Jesus Christ, but who wrote of the Logos, and other doctrines accepted by latter Christians, were 'Christians' even though they had not known it.
So retroactively designating these pagan philosophers and whatever portions of their philosophy met with his approval as 'Christian'.

What would make you think that was the given name of a child?



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Duvduv

Well, for starters, there is no evidence anywhere of Christian communities in the places the epistles were allegedly sent to. None.
There are no references in any traditional Jewish/talmudic texts for those centuries concerning any Christian communities.
There are no relics or common records of relics.
The only effort is based on wishful thinking to push "scholarship" as far back as possible.
As far as I am concerned, there were no Christian communities anywhere before the emergence of the Constantinian byzantian empire regime.

aa5874

If you rely on Acts of the Apostles then when the Holy Ghost came like a Mighty Rushing Wind [like a hurricane or a tropical storm???] on the day of Pentecost they had 3000 new converts on that very day and later they had 5000 more converts.

Acts 2:41 KJVActs 4:4 KJV The fact is that there was NO Jesus cult that was ever started by a Holy Ghost and the disciples of the Ascended Jesus in the 1st century.

Based on the Recovered dated Texts, the Jesus cult of Christians were FROM the 2nd century so there was ZERO Christians of a Jesus cult c 41 CE.

sotto voce

So were many other pagans.

This does not seem to be anything much to do with the OP. There are many who would just love antichrists to be thought of as Christians, just as there were when Justin demonstrated his hatred of truth. So maybe there is useful comment here, that, just as it is now, Christianity then was believed by everyone. It was just a matter of whether one was going to actually follow it.

What would make you think it? You do understand the use of capitalisation in English?

Of course, people capitalise improperly when they are trying to make something or someone seem more important than they know it/him to be. But not here, surely.

outhouse

Christians didnt really exist in pauls time, and they worshipped out of houses. They were known as god-fearers who had been gathering worshipping judaism but not converting. That existed for quite a long time before jesus legends began circulating


But by thetime we get to GJohn we know there were communities like the Johannine communities it states.


there is no real debate about the dating of the epistles, and we have a good enough idea within decades for the gospels.

Sheshbazzar

"There are many who would just love antichrists to be thought of as Christians, just as there were when Justin demonstrated his hatred of truth"

You have a religious problem. And it is your problem.

I am quite aware of your 'No true Christian' arguments, and your implied claim that you are the world's only TRUE™ Christian.
You need to take your 'problem' into your closet and pray about it, and stop making an ass of yourself with these types of posts.

You do understand the use of the prefix THE in English?
As in 'The Professor', 'THE Architect', 'THE Judge'.

There is no way any proper understanding of English usage would parse 'THE Philosopher Plato' as indicating the proper given name of a child.
Of course some people like to introduce vacuous and distracting arguments when they would like to change the focus of a discussion.

I used capitalization to indicate the Title of a profession. It is a common and accepted English usage.
In the ancient world being a 'Philosopher' was a recognized profession.

Surely, you could come up with something a bit more substantial to bitch about.


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