sotto voce

We have documentation?

tanya

"where's that funny acronym finder when you need him?"

Oh, so first I imagined that AIPAC referred to what is well known to those of us engaged in pig farming: Advanced Information Processing in Automatic Control

One needs that technique for the robotic control of cleaning the stalls, and depositing fresh straw. The automatic delivery of fresh water, and food, obviates need for the human to be always in attendance. Haven't learned yet, however, how to conduct the slaughter by machine.

But, then, I thought more about the topic: "holocaust deniers", and realized that this acronym must relate to Portugal Telecom:
Advanced Interconnection Technology for Electronics for Portugal

PT, for those unfamiliar with this excellent investment, is a wireless communications company headquartered in Lisbon, with a market cap of 4 billion $, forward P/E * P/Bk < 10, forward dividend yield of 15% (hint, hint), and a long tradition of serving the populace of the country which, together with England, created the world's oldest diplomatic alliance, the Treaty of Windsor, which originated during the time of Geoffrey Chaucer, and remains in effect today. G. Chaucer of course, was also a holocaust denier.

In other words, which "holocaust" are we describing? For me, "THE" holocaust, is that produced by the European pirates, thieves, and villains, so called, "adventurers", who murdered, raped and pillaged the North and South American continents, destroying almost the entire "native" cultures, languages, civilizations, artifacts, art work, and religions. By comparison, the Nazi roundup of homosexuals, slavs, gypsies and jews was a picnic in the park. We still have gypsies. We still have slavs. We still have homosexuals, and we certainly have tons of jews, all over the place. They run the USA. Show me, by comparison, an Algonquin village, or a Huron trading post, or some recent artwork from an Iroquois speaking woodsman. The "Indians" were anhiliated, a true holo caust.

spin

www.acronymfinder.com

stephan huller

If Holocaust denial is an imperfect analogy (because it is so recent) perhaps a better parallel is denying that Jewish people or Samaritans had a history of being persecuted in antiquity. They did even if the anecdotal evidence is lacking sometimes

Toto

No one denies that the earlier holocaust of Native Americans happened. It's history, it was recorded by the Europeans who thought they were doing god's work, or emulating Joshua who conquered Canaan and exterminated the infidels who lived there (in the story, which we know didn't happen.)

In contrast, Hitler apologists deny that the more recent Holocaust actually happened, or was intended, or otherwise try to pretend that inconvenient facts do not exist. That's what Holocaust denial refers to.

sotto voce

Words are not thoughts.

tanya

Just to clarify my position: I acknowledge with great sorrow, the horrific slaughter and destruction of Jewish people in 1920's, 30's and 40's in Europe. I am proud of my ancestors who fought with the French Resistance against fascism.

But, what I don't like is the seeming myopia, about the word, Holocaust, as though, only Jews have ever been massacred. The horrors committed by Hitler are unforgivable, and I do not in any way condone them.

But they are not the WORST slaughters in human history. Genghis Khan routinely wiped out, ENTIRE CITIES. The British were so keen to kill Chief Pontiac and the five tribes that they deliberately infected blankets with smallpox, to kill them by germ warfare.

Look up the Cham people, COMPLETELY gone, today, from VietNam. 1500 years ago, they were a thriving people.

In Denmark, 2000 years ago, a terrible slaughter took place, the bones are even today, being uncovered.

Did the Spanish spare even ONE member of the Island peoples of the Caribbean? Good luck finding someone who speaks or reads Taino on Hispaniola today.

What of the butchery of the innocents in Rwanda? Nearly ONE MILLION people slaughtered in three months. Can even Hitler devotees claim such an "accomplishment"?

It was not a "holocaust". It was a tragedy. It was a horror. It was unforgivable, attempted genocide that, fortunately, failed. But, it was not some sort of ultimate atrocity. Jews control the news media, and at every opportunity they hit us with "Holocaust", as though, Jews had been subjected to worse slaughter than anyone else. Jews did suffer, terribly, and unjustly, but they were not alone.

Jewish, or not Jewish, if you were a communist, or a member of the French Resistance, caught by Hitler's goons, you were tortured and killed.
By contrast, wealthy Jews, could pay a bribe, and escape to Switzerland. It was not in the end, a war against Jews, so much as it was an opportunity for Hitler to steal wealth by military power. Even the Vikings did that. The Danes in the eighth century seized "native American" inhabitants of Greenland, and brought them in chains to work in the mines. So did the Greeks. So did the Persians. So did the Egyptians. Hmm. Let's see, wonder if the Jews themselves ever did such a thing as destroy an entire civilization.....Does the Bible speak to that question?

Toto

Interview with Candida Moss

EarlDoherty

What about the most "cherished" account of all, the execution of countless Christians in Rome by Nero for setting the Great Fire, as recounted in Tacitus? There are absolutely no sources of information outside Annals 15 for such an event either among Christian commentators or among other Roman historians for three centuries after the alleged "fact". Why was such an event not trumpted to the skies, with all its attendant pain and gore, by martyrdom-fixated Christians for so long? Why did identifiable references to the suffering and death of such martyrs by the arch-fiend Nero not surface in Christian commentaries until the very late 4th century? Not even Tertullian or Eusebius could tell us about martyrdoms under Nero aside from Peter and Paul.

For a thorough study of this question (particularly if one wants to dispute it), please see Jesus: Neither God Nor Man, p.596-622. (Of course, Roo is exempt from this, since his attention span, as he constantly tells us, is not up to reading an argument which is 26 pages long and which I daresay uses some bigger words than he can cope with.)

Earl Doherty

Chili

Just another Christian Toto, and she has everthuing just backwards too.

Christians are just wrong and must lean on their Martyrs to prove their worth and that is the biggest contradiction that there ever was. I would ask: "Where is your Victory, and what are you hoping for as Christian," . . . and then they say: better days ahead after I die.

They are good imitators and are fueled by the angel of light that fades away when the sun goes down and so they have to rejuvenate the moment that they first believed each day, and so I hold that they got the scorpion instead.

But they make good neighbors and would be OK as long as they keep their clap-trap shut, and least of all write books and boast about their inferior design in life.