Vorkosigan

It would take a lot more than busted links to make you look like a fool, Ichabod.

Sven

How about an answer to my post? How about explaining if you deliberately misrepresented what I said or if you only misunderstood me?

By just ignoring my post, it won't go away.

Toto

Notice the last line:

Last edited by Toto : May 26, 2004 at 10:45 PM. Reason: fix URLs

Llyricist

Edit: nevermind, I read John 8:17....why don't you just copy and paste rather then waste everyone's time and effort?

It' still an inconsistency on the part of the Jesus character, even if it isn't an outright contradiction. Actually in the first case, he doesn't offer any testimony for himself, but relies on God's testimony alone. So the 2 person testimony rule is still broken even with that context...... and that isn't the way he presents it in John 5, he says flat out, without qualification:
"If I testify concerning myself, my testimony is not true"
So the context just seems to muddy the waters.

GakuseiDon

Sorry. Though perhaps if Javaman had looked at the context in the first place, this wouldn't have been a problem for anyone? As I said originally, too many of these kinds of 'contradictions' are ripped from their context!

Well, that's something at least. Thank you.

Nope, not even an inconsistancy. John B testifies also in John 5:33 '... he (John B) has borne witness to the truth'.

Editted to add: keep in mind John 5 and John 8 are separate events, i.e. it is not like two Gospels giving views of the same event.

Javaman

I'll accept your explanation, GD. I was specifically looking for blatant, short, contridictions and, at the time, didn't think there was any problem at all with this one. I've read several translations and I'm still not sure I follow your logic but I'm very new to this field of study.

GakuseiDon

No problem. Just keep in mind that a lot of the 'contradictions' you find on contradictionist websites are bogus, one way or the other. Though to be fair, a lot of apologists 'solve' these problems by trying to find any kind of harmonization, regardless of how improbable, as you will find. But in this case, I don't think there is a problem, based on a fair reading of the context.

A good contradiction IMO is where Peter denies Christ thrice before the rooster crows once/twice.

Javaman

Or perhaps the (obvious?) redaction of Matthews depiction of Jesus' ride into Jerusalem? The other gospels at least tie into a "correct" reading of Zechariah but Matthew's attempt to reveal Jesus as The Messiah is blatantly a misinterpretation (or the others are ).

Javaman

I've tried to reconcile these two passages as well as regards Jesus' last words:

John 19
30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

-vs-

Luke 23
46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.

mike T.W.

Yes, the "witness" one I've seen around quite a lot. I call these "supposed" contradictions "desperate digging". Ofcourse, if we dig hard enough, we will mistake copper for gold. GakuseiDon is right though, too many bogus contradictions are touted. I think some language in the bible, is also poetic or just made to drive a point home. Sometimes people try and offer contradictions between different books. Don't forget, we believe they are inspired by God - not written by his hand. The bible is inexhaustable, not contradictive.

I am a pig, and how can I wash myself clean except my owner do it?

I am a dog, and how can I sit at the master's table except he allows it?


These two statements have recently been used by me. It SEEMS there are contradictions. I stand by them both. Ofcourse, what am I? A pig or a dog?