Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Chili · 12-13-2012, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanya

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

AIPAC style!

"where's that funny acronym finder when you need him?"

Oh, so first I imagined that AIPAC referred to what is well known to those of us engaged in pig farming: Advanced Information Processing in Automatic Control

One needs that technique for the robotic control of cleaning the stalls, and depositing fresh straw. The automatic delivery of fresh water, and food, obviates need for the human to be always in attendance. Haven't learned yet, however, how to conduct the slaughter by machine.

But, then, I thought more about the topic: "holocaust deniers", and realized that this acronym must relate to Portugal Telecom:
Advanced Interconnection Technology for Electronics for Portugal

PT, for those unfamiliar with this excellent investment, is a wireless communications company headquartered in Lisbon, with a market cap of 4 billion $, forward P/E * P/Bk < 10, forward dividend yield of 15% (hint, hint), and a long tradition of serving the populace of the country which, together with England, created the world's oldest diplomatic alliance, the Treaty of Windsor, which originated during the time of Geoffrey Chaucer, and remains in effect today. G. Chaucer of course, was also a holocaust denier.

In other words, which "holocaust" are we describing? For me, "THE" holocaust, is that produced by the European pirates, thieves, and villains, so called, "adventurers", who murdered, raped and pillaged the North and South American continents, destroying almost the entire "native" cultures, languages, civilizations, artifacts, art work, and religions. By comparison, the Nazi roundup of homosexuals, slavs, gypsies and jews was a picnic in the park. We still have gypsies. We still have slavs. We still have homosexuals, and we certainly have tons of jews, all over the place. They run the USA. Show me, by comparison, an Algonquin village, or a Huron trading post, or some recent artwork from an Iroquois speaking woodsman. The "Indians" were anhiliated, a true holo caust.

You mean they shot the Indians, burned the bush and started raising cloven hoofed hogs to feed their forked tongue in a land of their own?

http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=ut...20tongue&type=

Chili · 12-13-2012, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

Sounds almost identical in approach and justification to the people who deny that the holocaust happened.

And I don't think we know about those events through "cherished church tradition". Our sources of information are literary and documentary texts.

Er, no, it's completely different.

Holocaust deniers, like creationists, try to pretend that they are merely presented a possible alternative view of the evidence, rather than an agenda driven denial of the evidence.

This author is a credentialed scholar and presumably Christian friendly, whose work has survived peer review and all.

I don't think the National Cathedral would sponsor a crank.

There is no denail of evidence, but you must at least try to understand that from their point of view (the executioner in charge) the so called self proclaimed Christians are the holo-caust deniers in that they speak with a forked tongue for as long as they go by the light of common day that is an illusion until the 'father and son' are truly one.

In Levitcus it was allowed in until evening followed to identify the division in their own mind wherein heaven and earth are opposites to each other with the light of common day being the enemy to be sacrificed in the end.

So the enemy was not the Jew, nor the Jewishness of the Jew but the human condition wherein his own mind was divided in two.

In Gen. 2 they called this TOL that was first and the engagement of TOK is what opened the eyes of the hu-man condition that was created by conjecture only to so create the forked mind of humans wherein only the light of common day can be seen (close your eyes and try it).

So a return to Eden now is make annihilate the TOK while sanity remains and that is what the Gospels are all about.

Bottom line, and with all respct to both parties: The National Cathedral is sponsoring a crank, as the holocaust continues.

Chili · 12-13-2012, 10:04 AM

. . . and let's not forget that to write Leviticus means that they knew excactly where heaven was at and knew exactly how to get there as well. In reality they offered 'Jewishness' as the vehicle to be sacrificed to get there, just as a mother would sacrifice here own life to save her own son, and that is how beautiful She is.

Chili · 12-13-2012, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

If Holocaust denial is an imperfect analogy (because it is so recent) perhaps a better parallel is denying that Jewish people or Samaritans had a history of being persecuted in antiquity. They did even if the anecdotal evidence is lacking sometimes

If that is a response to me, I know nothing of history, and just read two lines in Leviticus to write what I did. But I understand the error of Hitler who confused his own impared vision as the enemy that he saw in the world around him. That is a typical thing a reformer would do as outsider to himself. Others would just commit suicide, that so also is an intuit urge wherein a stand is made between the TOL and the TOK.

Chili · 12-13-2012, 08:09 PM

. . . only spiritually empowered people could be that mean, as man is "basically good" and not evil and is a slave to beauty in his natural state as the animal man. His would be the Unicorn image with a singular mind wherein so the son is both Lord God and God. Just imagery, of course, but he will have what is known as the mind of Christ in NT circles, and will have/must have resigned from politics including religion because that only pertains to the human condition and will have died in him, as it did for all those who went before him.

I think Aristotle called them 'purely natural' as against social or maybe more like 'non-social' and without desire after "becoming and ceasing" that requires contemplation on our part to follow, but much like the Gospels where Luke and John showed us how it is done. Matthew and Mark, then, would present the empower reformer trying to change the world around him instead of his own mind.

Plato takes it further than "it is in giving that we receive" and places man with a glow in the middle of nature where his function in the genus through the eidos (soul) of man is like that of a chair that does not receive while in function, and so the 'lion image' is real.

The Jews knew this and know all about these kind of people and actaully cautioned Pilate that the final imposter will be much worse than the first (Mat.27:64) as a spiritually empowered reformer 'to be.'

Chili · 02-24-2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanya

...

In other words, which "holocaust" are we describing? For me, "THE" holocaust, is that produced by the European pirates, thieves, and villains, so called, "adventurers", who murdered, raped and pillaged the North and South American continents, destroying almost the entire "native" cultures, languages, civilizations, artifacts, art work, and religions. By comparison, the Nazi roundup of homosexuals, slavs, gypsies and jews was a picnic in the park. We still have gypsies. We still have slavs. We still have homosexuals, and we certainly have tons of jews, all over the place. They run the USA. Show me, by comparison, an Algonquin village, or a Huron trading post, or some recent artwork from an Iroquois speaking woodsman. The "Indians" were anhiliated, a true holo caust.

No one denies that the earlier holocaust of Native Americans happened. It's history, it was recorded by the Europeans who thought they were doing god's work, or emulating Joshua who conquered Canaan and exterminated the infidels who lived there (in the story, which we know didn't happen.)

In contrast, Hitler apologists deny that the more recent Holocaust actually happened, or was intended, or otherwise try to pretend that inconvenient facts do not exist. That's what Holocaust denial refers to.

You have to watch where in mythology the warfare takes place inside the mind and those slain represent the enemy within, like pigs that should just run over a cliff in NT formula, who are the flip-side of those 5000 who were fed with just two fishes and two loaves, that now speak on behalf of 'eternal truth' right from the celestial sea. The scraps here now left over where the ones the OT slaughtered as just wrong opinion inside the mind of the 'seer,' here, and that is obviously much greater than the 2 loaves that fed the great inquisition that satisfied 5000 untied pieces of knowledge with a question mark behind them all at once.

Just consider here that that every position we hold as knowledge is purified and must remove the husk as chaff and so those OT slaughters were like 'the winnows of a fan' at treshing time.

. . . and here you justify Christians wiping out civilizations by doing God's work and call it history?

And are these the same Christians who stole that piece of land call Israel, and keep the Jewish 'holocaust' alive to justify their actions, and will bomb the wrong country time and time again, . . . and we just call it history?

A good metaphor here is how the shepherds were herding sheep as their knowledge-on-the-run what was validated when they looked in to understand. Zhivago gives some detail here as to why they could not enter, but that is not needed here.

Chili · 02-25-2013, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharrock

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharrock

I imagine the Flavian Dynasty were ambivalent.

Is that an answer?

http://www.salon.com/2013/02/24/the_...nt_persecuted/

Interesting here is this line:

Quote:

"They include Polycarp, a bishop in Smyrna during the second century who was burned at the stake."

Now understand that "burned at the stake" is an allegory in itself wherein bishop Polycarp here was burned at the stake that represents the cross because he failed to die on the cross himself. So the stake image tells the tale that he actually was a failure to die on the cross, but likely acted as a wolf among the flock . . . that also must be real for him to be a wolf, now in sheeps clothing, who preached the other Gospel wherein Jesus died for us and we do not have do it on our own.

So if indeed Polycarp was burned at the stake, it means that the Church who ordered this was real, and had a flock to scatter, and so Polycarp was a dissenter already then as Luther was later and so many in between.

The key point here is burned at the stake that speaks in evidence of failing to die on the cross yourself, and so is an accellerated form of waisting there, likely while singing 'patient endurance' songs and therefore they did him the favor that he sought in secret.

Bottom line: If the stake is real the cross is real, just as walking on water was real when Moses parted the water to get into the promised land, already way back when. These two images are the same and tell the tale.

Chili · 02-25-2013, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMacSon

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Who admits to murder of innocents?

That is a leading question

No. It's a rhetorical one.

Quote:

(an informal fallacy) - implying there were innocents and they were murdered.

That's informal fallacy.

Not the first today.

Formalized with "Ignoratio Elenchi" wherein the point made is proven to be right and just, or igorance would not be called.

Chili · 02-25-2013, 06:48 PM

It is an appeal to pity (ad misericordiam) to get non-believers on their side against the Catholics, who are only Christians when they need them on their side to oppress the non-believers.

Typical temple-tramps or bible whores, you may call them too.

rdalin · 02-25-2013, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

It is an appeal to pity (ad misericordiam) to get non-believers on their side against the Catholics, who are only Christians when they need them on their side to oppress the non-believers.

Typical temple-tramps or bible whores, you may call them too.

I have always suspected that it's at least partly a misguided attempt to be more like Jesus. "Look, Jesus was persecuted, and we're being persecuted too."

02-25-2013, 06:48 PM	#9
Chili Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 11,885	Chili posts split from Candida Moss It is an appeal to pity (ad misericordiam) to get non-believers on their side against the Catholics, who are only Christians when they need them on their side to oppress the non-believers. Typical temple-tramps or bible whores, you may call them too.

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12-13-2012, 10:04 AM	#3
Chili Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 11,885	. . . and let's not forget that to write Leviticus means that they knew excactly where heaven was at and knew exactly how to get there as well. In reality they offered 'Jewishness' as the vehicle to be sacrificed to get there, just as a mother would sacrifice here own life to save her own son, and that is how beautiful She is.

12-13-2012, 08:09 PM	#5
Chili Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 11,885	. . . only spiritually empowered people could be that mean, as man is "basically good" and not evil and is a slave to beauty in his natural state as the animal man. His would be the Unicorn image with a singular mind wherein so the son is both Lord God and God. Just imagery, of course, but he will have what is known as the mind of Christ in NT circles, and will have/must have resigned from politics including religion because that only pertains to the human condition and will have died in him, as it did for all those who went before him. I think Aristotle called them 'purely natural' as against social or maybe more like 'non-social' and without desire after "becoming and ceasing" that requires contemplation on our part to follow, but much like the Gospels where Luke and John showed us how it is done. Matthew and Mark, then, would present the empower reformer trying to change the world around him instead of his own mind. Plato takes it further than "it is in giving that we receive" and places man with a glow in the middle of nature where his function in the genus through the eidos (soul) of man is like that of a chair that does not receive while in function, and so the 'lion image' is real. The Jews knew this and know all about these kind of people and actaully cautioned Pilate that the final imposter will be much worse than the first (Mat.27:64) as a spiritually empowered reformer 'to be.'

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