Heathen Dawn

The traditional Jewish calendar sets the date of creation at 5763 years from today - 3761 BCE. It is based on a 2nd century CE Talmudic chronology called Seder Olam Rabba.

Volker.Doormann

The simple truth behind this number is, that this 5763 years do not determine the age of the earth, it is simple the number of years counts in the Hebrew calendar. Because the Hebrew calendar is a moon calendar - most all of the Hebrew ritulals are coupled to moon phases (Passover) and are religious symbols of life and death, - Hebrew priest have back calulated the 235 lunation's of the nineteen-year cycles of eclipses to the year 3760 BCE October 7 (in the Julian proleptic calendar).

Some stupid Hebrew scholars then have taken the myths from the Genesis (Hebrew: B'Reyshith, = Beginnings) which are of Sumerian and Indian origin 1.) (Vedas) and have coupled this 'Era of Creation' with the start of this calendar. But if in 3760 BCE there was a constant frequency in the 19 year cycle of sun and moon, it is no problem to counts the years in the Hebrew calendar Before That Era.

In the Hebrew Calendar the years are counted from the 'Era of Creation', or 'Era Mundi', which corresponds to -3760 October 7 on the Julian proleptic calendar. Each year consists of twelve or thirteen months, with months consisting of 29 or 30 days. An intercalary month is introduced in years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 19 in a nineteen-year cycle of 235 lunation's.

1.) "The non-existent was not; the existent was not at that time. The atmosphere was not nor the heavens which are beyond. What was concealed? Where? In whose protection? Was it water? An fathomable abyss? There was neither death nor immortality then. There was not distinction of day or night. That alone breathed windless by its own power. Other than that there was not anything else. Darkness was hidden by darkness in the beginning. All this was an indistinguishable sea. That which becomes, that which was enveloped by the void, that alone was born through the power of heat. Upon that desire arose in the beginning. This was the first discharge of thought. Sages discovered this link of the existent to the nonexistent, having searched in the heart with wisdom. Their line [of vision] was extended across; what was below, what was above? There were impregnators, there were powers: inherent power below, impulses above. Who knows truly? Who here will declare whence it arose, whence this creation? The gods are subsequent to the creation of this. Who, then, knows whence it has come into being? Whence this creation has come into being; whether it was made or not; he in the highest heaven is its surveyor. Surely he knows, or perhaps he knows not."
(Rig Veda)

I think it is stupid to beat on anything in a book, while the relations of astrological basis in the Indian Rig Veda and in the Thorah myths are well known to them, who seek.

Volker

excreationist

Volker.Doormann:
Are you saying that those who invented the Jewish calendar didn't think it signified the number of years since creation?

Consider these quotes:
http://www.bartleby.com/61/86/J0038600.html
http://www.kalendersysteme.de/englis..._03.html#notes
http://www.tondering.dk/claus/cal/no...00000000000000

Volker.Doormann

I say, that "Some stupid Hebrew scholars then have taken the myths from the Genesis (Hebrew: B'Reyshith, = Beginnings) which are of Sumerian and Indian origin 1.) (Vedas) and have coupled this 'Era of Creation' with the start of this calendar. But if in 3760 BCE there was a constant frequency in the 19 year cycle of sun and moon, it is no problem to counts the years in the Hebrew calendar Before That Era. "

It is no secret that thousands of theologicians now are on the history path searching a HJ, while the canonical Gospel Jesus is recognizable a myth. Don't blame them who have worked out a valuable Jewish calender to live in harmony with the nature of the moon and sun etc.; blame stupid historians, who ignore the spiritual orign of the Jewish culture in Christianity and Judaism. Seems, that you ignores that too.

Volker

excreationist

Volker.Doormann:
I think the world is billions of years old. I'm saying that early Jewish people believed the world was created a few thousand years ago.
You said:
Doesn't "Era of Creation" refer to the creation of the world? It doesn't matter whether a young earth is a myth... I'm talking about what the early Jews believed.

Volker.Doormann

It is of no meaning what you think. You must give proofs. You cannot give a proof about the time prior to Big Bang. It is simpel your personal believe, that the world has a countable age. There is no reason, why the world has an age; energy cannot be created to be then mass. Pure science fiction. The world was ever; the world is; material (mass) or immaterial (energy).

I have given you serious hints to my claims, to verify this in scientific manner. You can find, that the creation myth is not of Jewish origin. This shows, that each claim of Hebrew scholars on a historical timeline is arrogant and wrong. The accuracy of the Hebrew calendar is based on serious astronomical data. In the same way you can study the meaning of the Hebrew myths, to understand its spiritual meaning of them, as the writer of Mesopotamia in 2800 BCE have dramatized the same theme. There is no reasonable relation that ancient people were more stupid then present people. Knowledge is an individal quality, not a quality of the time.

Your saying is of no worth, because you cannot give a proof about. Your saying is pure fiction. It is not a common practice in science to interpret the belief of 'early Jewish people', because you have no facts.

What is the belief of early American people? Do all the individuals belief in the very same idea?

Judaism is a culture containing so many thoughts and individuals not one. Reincarnation is a common understanding in the Jewish mysticism, and some guys ignore the Saurian, because they were told, that the world was not then. But astrology was part of the Jewish culture, or sometimes war. They have captured the great myths from Sumerian to the Hebrew language and have done spiritual science in secret.

The real fiction is, that there are Jews. There are only individuals like you and me, imperfect and sitting in a mortal body, searching for truth (sometime). Who cares about Isms.

Volker

Amos

Quote:

The real fiction is, that there are Jews. There are only individuals like you and me, imperfect and sitting in a mortal body, searching for truth (sometime). Who cares about Isms. Volker

. . . and then there were mythmakers who juxtaposed heaven with earth to form the genesis for a new civilization that would prosper and "become as numerous as the kernels of sand on the beach." These were the fathers of Juda-ism for out of their insigth the civilization was born and it doesn't matter if some elements were borrowed from existing cultures because all cultures have an archetypal similarity or they would not be true to the reality they represent.

excreationist

Ok... not all early Jews necessarily believed that the world was a few thousand years old. But at least one of them did, and him/they were influential enough to put a date for creation on the Jewish calendar which the Jews generally adopted. Some Jews probably reject the calendar though. BTW, I'm aware of the Hebrew creation myths coming from elsewhere.

Volker.Doormann

"When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.
(Jiddu Krishnamurti) "

Volker.Doormann

You cannot give a proof. The start of a calendar is arbitrary, it must only match to astronomical laws. Myths cannot create moon calendars, but a calendar can creat myths.

Volker