Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sheshbazzar · 02-09-2013, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Quote:

The only wasted effort I'm seeing here is in trying to get stephan to reveal where he finds any text of Philo that states the Theraputae cult of Alexandria observed a 364 day calendar.

Oh my God. It's too much. It's like I am teaching a child how to fly an airplane. You realize that the 'experts' that you all ignore so much and so often have taken and examine bits and pieces of things related to the Contemplative Life and studied and commented upon them in relation to bits and pieces of other 'things' - like Qumran texts, Falasha traditions and documents, Syriac traditions and documents, Slavonic traditions and documents etc?

There is a reason why we are supposed to at least acknowledge the opinion of experts. Our culture has traditionally devoted some of its resources to allow people who have been trained how to think, how to read, how to appreciate tradition and texts from antiquity and communicate and collaborate with other experts in different universities, cultures and across time. Research doesn't happen in a void. Lots of intelligent people have been building and commenting and re-purposing previous and contemporary scholars.

You guys haven't even read what work has been done on the Therapeutae, putting them in a Jewish cultural context. You don't want to read the evidence because it might topple over the existing preconceptions. Read the literature. Google the terms "364 day calendar" and "Therapeutae" and see for yourself - or as I suspect continue to ignore it.

In other words stephan, This is your back-handed way of admitting that there is no such statement to be found regarding the calendar of the Theraputae anywhere within the actual writings of Plato.

You cannot quote it because it simply does not exist.

Oh yes, I know all those popular ASSUMED conclusions which you would love to be able to substitute for providing actual words from Philo.
But none of them are able to provide any more real evidence than you are, just speculations, assumptions, and assertions, just as you are trying to do now.

If you had any real evidence that would stand up to examination you would be presenting it here, instead of all of this hand waving.

You have stated 'Its in the text' and insulted me for not finding it.
If it IS there in the text, you should not have any problem at all with copying and pasting that text.
If its there 'In the text' Why can't you find, or produce it? Don't blame me if your favored theory actually lacks legs to stand on.

If this were a Court of Law, about now your claims would be being dismissed for lack of evidence.

stephan huller · 02-09-2013, 11:34 PM

Quote:

You appear to have no idea that EXPERTS can disagree with each other using the very same Data.

No, I am saying smart people - people smarter and better educated that you and I - have been having ongoing dialogues about these matters and you all feel good about yourselves ignoring that discussion.

Sheshbazzar · 02-09-2013, 11:45 PM

Your 'smarter' people don't have any quotations from Philo about the length of the Theraputae of Alexandria's years either.
These are the 'experts' who can read their tea leaves and use the result to tell us how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or how many days were in the year of the Theraputae.

Do you have any idea how many days are in my years stephan?
I know you don't. You don't even conceive of the matter.

stephan huller · 02-09-2013, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Your 'smarter' people don't have any quotations from Philo about the length of the Theraputae of Alexandria's years either.

But they figured out the 364 day calendar business. But then again they actually read the text from end to end unlike you all. Maybe that's why they have a better idea what it's all about. Maybe. Just maybe reading the material might help someone figure it out.

Sheshbazzar · 02-10-2013, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Quote:

You appear to have no idea that EXPERTS can disagree with each other using the very same Data.

No, I am saying smart people - people smarter and better educated that you and I - have been having ongoing dialogues about these matters

And 'smart people' - people smarter and better educated that you and I-, have been disagreeing and revising their opinions on these matters now for 2000 years.
Even those that lived in the area, were fluent and familiar with the languages, and lived within 400 years of the events, could not get their facts straight, and came to what you now regard to be totally erroneous conclusions.
Not too impressive a record by the supposed 'smart people - people smarter and better educated that you and I- 'authorities' and 'experts' on these matters. I have no more reason to trust the opinions of today's 'experts' that I do to those of Eusebius.

Sheshbazzar · 02-10-2013, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Quote:

Your 'smarter' people don't have any quotations from Philo about the length of the Theraputae of Alexandria's years either.

But they figured out the 364 day calendar business.

They may have figured it out about 'Judaism'. But they lack the information on the Threraputae of Alexandria to figure out anymore than that they observed the Sabbath and held an all night religious Festival at the end of every seven weeks, Unlike any other known Jewish sect.
Their other religious practices did not conform to mainstream Jewish religious practices. There is no reason to assume that they followed or conformed to any common Jewish calendar year.

stephan huller · 02-10-2013, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Their other religious practices did not conform to mainstream Jewish religious practices.

But they must have been tolerated or accepted because Philo approved of them and he was 'Mr. Authority' in the Alexandrian Jewish community.

Sheshbazzar · 02-10-2013, 01:23 AM

And yet Mr Authority did not adopt those oh so admirable practices for himself.
All of his writing about them distances 'them' from himself and his fellow Alexandrian Jews.
There is no 'We do thus and thus', the entire account is from a remote perspective; 'They do this, and then they do that.
Not at all the kind of language one would use if writing about the practices of ones own fellows. There is an estrangement present throughout the text of VC that literally shouts 'They are not one with us'.

Whatever became of having an all night religious Festival every seven weeks? Philo just gushes over it, but apparently couldn't get the rest Jewry interested.
Yet this sects religious life revolved around that clock-work regular Festival. Where did they get it from???

There are still a lot of unanswered questions surrounding VC, including why many of its views are at such odds with the rest of Philo's well known positions.

Sheshbazzar · 02-10-2013, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Quote:

Their other religious practices did not conform to mainstream Jewish religious practices.

But they must have been tolerated or accepted because Philo approved of them and he was 'Mr. Authority' in the Alexandrian Jewish community.

Then there is little reason why Philo may not have likewise tolerated or accepted the Theraputae of Alexandria following 'their' -(not one of us)- own calendar.
Perhaps their method, even having more or less days in their years, still allowed for the major Torah Festivals to be observed on the same days as the rest of Alexandrian Jewry.

You are unaware of my unusual time keeping methods, including the fact that I observe a 354 day year, a 360 day year, a 365 day year, a 365.24218967 day year, as well as a 367.5 day year and a 420 day year. (and years of various other lengths) Yet I observe the Seven annual High Sabbaths of haShem YHWH upon the same days as the rest of my congregations that do not calculate or keep track of time in my manner.
No reason known that the Theraputae could not have done likewise.

Clivedurdle · 02-10-2013, 05:01 AM

This might look off topic but...

Quote:

Paul: Female hair too sexy to go unveiled

The apostle Paul wanted women to cover their tresses while praying because he — like the rest of Hellenistic culture then — believed that the long hair of adult females was the sexual equivalent of male testicles, according to a newly published study.

Citing writings from Aristotle, Euripedes and the disciples of Hippocrates, the "father of medicine," Troy W. Martin of St. Xavier University in Chicago said that Paul reflected the physiology of his time in believing that the hair of adult women "is part of female genitalia." Martin's article appears in the spring issue of the Journal of Biblical Literature.

http://www.sbl-site.org/publications...?articleId=271

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02-09-2013, 11:45 PM	#783
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Your 'smarter' people don't have any quotations from Philo about the length of the Theraputae of Alexandria's years either. These are the 'experts' who can read their tea leaves and use the result to tell us how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or how many days were in the year of the Theraputae. Do you have any idea how many days are in my years stephan? I know you don't. You don't even conceive of the matter.

02-10-2013, 01:23 AM	#788
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	And yet Mr Authority did not adopt those oh so admirable practices for himself. All of his writing about them distances 'them' from himself and his fellow Alexandrian Jews. There is no 'We do thus and thus', the entire account is from a remote perspective; 'They do this, and then they do that. Not at all the kind of language one would use if writing about the practices of ones own fellows. There is an estrangement present throughout the text of VC that literally shouts 'They are not one with us'. Whatever became of having an all night religious Festival every seven weeks? Philo just gushes over it, but apparently couldn't get the rest Jewry interested. Yet this sects religious life revolved around that clock-work regular Festival. Where did they get it from??? There are still a lot of unanswered questions surrounding VC, including why many of its views are at such odds with the rest of Philo's well known positions.

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