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Old 10-01-2010, 12:10 PM   #61
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Default No flesh no fear?

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AA,

Those observations are all good and fine, but if you can't explain why Jesus said his flesh was weak according to Mark 14:38, you are going to have to give up your assertion that gMark's Jesus had NO FLESH.

Are you up to the task?

Jake
But, your task is such a PIECE of Cake.

It will take a few minutes.

Examine Mark 14.37. gMark's Jesus SCOLDS his supposed disciple, Peter.

Mr 14:37 -

And now in Mark 14.38, gMark's Jesus ADMONISHES the disciples to WATCH and PRAY to AVOID temptation.



Why should the disciples WATCH and PRAY? Their FLESH was weak and was liable to FALL to TEMPTATION.

It is obvious that in gMark Jesus was making reference to the FLESH of the disciples.

And now, Jesus in gMark would go back to pray and come back three times to find those weak FLESH disciples with HEAVY eyes.

Mark 14.39-41

You must have NOTICED that gMark's Jesus did NOT say MY FLESH is weak.

The author of gMark MISSED every opportunity to show that his Jesus had FLESH.

Now, Peter and the disciples would later PROVE their FLESH was INDEED weak in gMark.

Mark 14.50

Mark 14.71
Quote:
.But he began to curse and to swear, saying, I know not this man of whom ye speak....
The disciples' had FLESH and it was WEAK in gMark and FELL to TEMPTATION.

gMark's Jesus had NO FLESH. He NEVER Fell to TEMPTATION.

FLESH must FALL to TEMPTATION.

After all, that is what FLESH must DO.

The Jesus of gMark had NO FLESH.
Hi AA,

OK, I can see your point. Well done. But in gMark, Jesus was tempted to try to avoid the crucifixion.
But if Jesus had no flesh and could not be tempted, why did he pray to his Father in Heaven (according to Mark 14:35 ff) if possible the hour might pass from him, and "Take this cup from me."

If he had no flesh, and thus could suffer no pain, what was he afraid of in gMark?

Jake
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:12 PM   #62
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AAA, you need to ask yourself one question. When the disciple saw Jesus walking on the water, did they see a man of flesh or a phantom (gk. phantasma)? Mark 6:49.
One thing worth noting here is that Jesus does not deny being a phantasma as he gets in the boat. He merely says: 'cheer up, it is I, have no fear !'. I think Mark was deliberately playing with the dual nature of Christ, IOW poking fun at the Petrine view of Jesus as merely a fleshy idol - denying his complementary nature as a Spirit. I also read Matthew's account of Peter's unsuccesful walk on water as counter-ridiculing the Paulines. It was their insistence that the followers are 'Christ's' imitators that irked the Petrines. Matthew was saying to Mark (who was a Pauline): no follower of Christ could be like him - see even the first disciple, Peter, tried it on the sea and failed miserably.

Best,
Jiri
That sounds reasonable.

Jake
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:53 PM   #63
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Hi AA,

OK, I can see your point. Well done. But in gMark, Jesus was tempted to try to avoid the crucifixion.
But if Jesus had no flesh and could not be tempted, why did he pray to his Father in Heaven (according to Mark 14:35 ff) if possible the hour might pass from him, and "Take this cup from me."

If he had no flesh, and thus could suffer no pain, what was he afraid of in gMark?

Jake


But, in gMark Jesus was TEMPTED by Satan.

Mark 1:13 -
Quote:
And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
It is NOT the Temptation but YIELDING to Temptation, ENTERING into the Temptation, or FALLING to the Temptation that FLESH must DO.

In gMark, Jesus did NOT YIELD or Fall into Temptation.

Mark 14.38
Quote:
..38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.
If gMark's Jesus HAD FLESH then there MUST be evidence in gMark where he YIELDED to Temptation after he was TEMPTED.

There is no such evidence.

The Jesus of gMark had NO FLESH.
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