Sheshbazzar

Forget the actual teachings and practices countless millions of Jews as recorded over thousands of years ....If spin is your 'expert' and 'final authority' on interpretation of The Torah and what constitutes obedience to its teachings.

Actually this is a question of Torah textual interpretation which was settled long ago;
And this Elohim given authority to interpret The Torah and to make binding official DECISIONS (המשפט -ha'Mishpat- 'the Judgment' ('that which has been Decided') was understood to extend every aspect of Jewish life and religious conduct.

The rulings of the functioning Levitical Priesthood, and of the Sandhedrin, the Jews ruling body, regarding correct observance of the Jewish Sabbath are not so far in the past as to be unrecoverable.
Even the NT provides plenty of evidence, with the haste to get the body in the tomb, because a Sabbath of the Jews commenced at sunset.
And the disciples themselves observed that Sabbath from that sunset, (Jhn 19:31 & Lk 23:53-54) in subjection to the tradition and manner of practice which they had been taught.

In the presence of the fully functioning Temple, the Levitical Priesthood, and a community of Torah observant Yehudim, neither spin nor his Sanhedrin contradicting interpretation or religious opinion would have endured a week.

Anyone that -practices- Sabbath observance after the manner of The Torah, and of the Jewish religion would be aware of this matter.
What spin doesn't know, is a result of what spin has never practiced.




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aa5874

What?? It is NOT a Joke!! This is most schocking.

It is most disturbing that people here do not know when the Jewish day begins and ends yet give the impression that they have knowledge of Jewish History.

spin

You're saying this, Shesh, despite the fact that you have aggressively and nastily advocated views that forget the actual teachings and practices of countless millions of christians as recorded over the last few thousand years. Your appeal here is shamefaced and cynical. You don't give a damn about actual teachings and practices per se. You do what all religionists do: you advocate your beliefs over the others and will not truck any ideas that go against those beliefs.

You start out here with utter hypocrisy, then you show you ignore the first sentence in the post you are responding, which says "the Jewish day in much of the bible begins at dawn, while later Jewish tradition advocates that it begins at sunset." I do not in fact forget the actual teachings and practices of countless millions of Jews. I acknowledge that later Jewish tradition diverges from much of the bible.

The response in the post I'm replying to turns its back on the torah and what the torah actually says and instead changes the topic onto some sanctimonious polemic aimed at me. That just says to me that you don't have anything to say about the torah. You merely give your interpretation of some of the gospel indications regarding the start of day, an interpretation I have already dealt with in this thread.

Sheshbazzar

The Temple Sanhedrin were clearly given the authority by The Torah to interpret, and to Judge, and to make binding legal Decisions on matters of Torah interpretation and practice, in all matters of The Law of YHWH, and of the Land of Israel, and concerning the legal conduct of its religion, and of the people that lived under and subject to that Government and its religious system.
The collective Decision reached by the Levitical Priests and The Judge regarding the observance of the Sabbaths of the Jews are known and public.

Whether you or anyone else thinks The Sanhedrin may have erred and decided or judged incorrectly is immaterial to the matter.
Their interpretation was THE LAW of the land, and The Law to which the Jewish people were bound under penalty of death to obey. Deut 17:12

And the evidence is that Judaism collectively "AMEN-ed" and consented to obey Deuteronomy 17:8-13 and 27:26 which practicing Jews still uphold.

The Sabbath observances at the Temple in Jerusalem, and among Jews throughout the Land of Israel, and to the furtherest flung congregation of the Diaspora, observed the beginning of their Sabbaths 'at the going down of the sun' as they still do to this very day.

But apart from the matter of the order of Sabbath observances, there were also other Laws contained within Torah that were either suspended or even reversed under that granted authority to make such Judgments and Decisions regarding Torah, that was vested solely in the Levitical Priesthood and the Great Sanhedrin.

This was akin to the taking a matter of legal dispute all the way to the Supreme Court of The United States. The Decisions there reached do not always please everyone, and there are always grumblers and dissidents.
But nonetheless the Decisions so reached are The Laws by which the nation henceforth operates.

The Decision the Sanhedrin reached regarding the timing and duration of The Sabbaths was final, and among Jews only the Great Sanhedrin, or the coming ha'Mashiach holds any authority to rescind or to ever in any way change that well known and established Judgment.

Thus no Jew, or any other person that observes The Sabbath, is in any way violating The Sabbath by observing it in the manner understood, and prescribed by the workings of the Legal system of Israel, reached under that authority solely invested in them by their Elohim YHWH.

Ken Brown

Hi Sheshbazzar, this is a remarkable post, and I would hope it puts any dispute to bed concerning WHEN the Sabbath starts and ends...at the going down of the sun. Thanks again. KB

spin

As it continues from its previous installment, Shesh's post was irrelevant. We are not talking about what a committee decided post hoc, but what the Hebrew bible says. You find it remarkable because you too have no tangible argument that looks at the examples posted from the bible differently, so as to give the hope that the day actually began, when those examples were written, in the evening. As there is no argument on the subject in Shesh's post, there is nothing I need to say.