Peter Kirby

I think that nontheists like to read Jack Chick more than theists do.

best,
Peter Kirby

Toto

Peter - if you think you can resurrect a nice liberal rational Christianity based on selective verses from the nicer parts of the gospels, I won't try to stop you. But my observation is that brand of Christianity didn't work for people. Its market share was taken over by the more fundamentalist types, who do think people are going to hell. And part of the reason liberal Christianity is in a decline is that there is no historical Jesus to be found. That hippie pacifist was just a projection of Christians in the 60's.

When Falwell and Robertson and Jack Chick go on about hellfire, there are no liberal experts who can stand up and say that they are clearly wrong, even if most Christians don't believe in eternal damnation.

Thomas II

Fire...Brimstone...Yahweh...A volcano...Mount Horeb...Active then...Extinct now...Yahweh has not "spoken" since then...Then it had a "volcanic personality"...
It was what is called "an ELEMENTAL" connected to a certain volcano, erratic and fiery and scary...
Have we ever heard of Madame Pele, in Kilahuea,Hawaii? Kind of like that...

Killer Mike

Its more like fighting fire with a toothbrush. The basic problem is the Jesus Never Existed idea is not supported by mainstream scholarship. Go to Harvard, Yale, Brown, Oxford, etc.. and you will be taugh Jesus did exist, but the stories about him are myth. The Jesus Never Existed scholars do have some fairly good arguments, but they are not persuasive enough to convince the mainstream.

NWT

That is precisely why atheists need to go on the offensive, and start picking holes in that false assumption. The simple truth is we have allowed, religious scholars, who have been vested interests in preserving these fables, to sustain them, and be allowed the luxury of being mere apologists, rather than critical thinkers, i.e. real scholars. If we gave back 1% of that crap we have had to take over evolution, the Jesus Myth would be treated much different by the more intelligent segment of the population, who yield much influence in the progression of beliefs in our society. The Jesus Fable has been given a free ride by those in our society who are to willing to roll over and play dead in the face of this monstrosity - Religious Dominionism that is arising.

At this point in time, I would not regard it as a political tactic. Certainly no democrat would touch it with a 10 ft pole, as it is a loose and don't win anything proposition. I've seen, as in the Myths of Mankind series, a growing willingness to challenge the universal assumption that the biblical Jesus actually existed. If the Athiests, Brights, Rationalists, and supporters of Evolution were to put "out there" the fact about the Jesus Myth, it would give people tools to oppose the rhetoric of religious wackos, and begin a much needed process of putting them on the defensive, rather than always letting them take the lead.

Wallener

You don't win over hearts and minds with intellectual carpet bombing. IMO the best way to deal with the Jesus et al issues is to have a proper comparative religion course as part of high school and college curriculum. The inconsistencies and "borrowing" and prophetic unfulfillment will show up all by themselves without anyone having to piss of anyone else.

froggy

Ah, eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, what a glorious achievement insight.

So this is not only theist problems, the atheist are also plaqued with the same syndrome, digging syndrome. Do you ever notice that the muslims are the laziest people when come into digging bussines? because history is not the purpose of spiritual consumption.

If you succeed which is impossible, than christianity become extinct, what do you get?. Remember you are as an atheist you want something back for your achievement, not in the next life but here, what that would be.
The truth will always the truth even when no one defending it. Your method is indicating something is crumbling.
"I can hear the armor plate broken and the groaning of the flesh" (my invention)
---------------------------------------
And dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me insolent, unblessed;(19:32).

And peace on me
on the day I was born-and
on the day I die-and
on the day I'll be raised to life.(19:33).

Such is Jesus, son of Mary; the saying of truth about which they dispute.(19:34).

Wallener

Hint: the vacuum won't be replaced by atheism.

freigeister

The "hippy Jesus" never got far beyond externals: sandals, long hair, communes. Where a hippy tried to actually model Christ's character, the results were black comedy (Manson, Jones, Koresh). The hippy failure was a failure of nerve, a failure to follow Christ out of materialism and into spiritual truth. The hippys threw away their sandals, cut their hair, and bought their bungalows. To comfort themselves, they decided they might as well say that the hippy Jesus was all a dream, an illusion, a lie. And you, you new generation of professional sceptics, follow loyally, doing their dirty work, footnoting every scrap of paper that might help rationalize hippy cowardice.

NWT

You seem hung up on biblical quotations. It would be more reasonable to call it - the best defense is an offense.

This is not an effort to make Christianity extinct. Many christians, including Catholics, view their religion in a more pragmatic way, i.e. helping the poor, teaching moral goodness, etc and either don't take the Christ fable as literally true (as any sensible Christian - cannot take the bible as literal truth) or don't believe it or are indifferent to it. These are what we call religious moderates - most of whom believe in the seperation of church & state, and they are not the ones who have launched this aggressive assault against the truth of evolution.
The point of this aggressive stand, is against the growth of the ultra-right wing, christian fundamentalists - Christian Dominionists as they are called, who virtually all believe the Christ Fable as literal truth - and this literal truth is central to their rhetoric.