andrewcriddle

I think we should distinguish.

Tacitus may well have used archived records about Nero's anti-Christian measures. These records might have included claims made in Nero's time about Christian origins.

What is unlikely, is that there was ever any record sent to Rome by Pilate about a death sentence summarily imposed on a non-citizen in Palestine.

Andrew Criddle

la70119

And write that one 'Christus' was the author of the name 'Chrestians' and that Pontius Pilate was just a Procurator and not a Prefect who wore more than one hat.

la70119

Hmmmm... doesn't it seemed odd that right about this time the Christian Story ^(TM) first got going, and there was a case about a certain Jewish preacher who was supposed to be given his freedom, but the dastardly Jews bullied the local Prefect and thereby had their way with the preacher, who three days later reportedly arose from the dead? :constern01:

sotto voce

See the spelling error. It tells us all we need to know.

:tombstone:

mountainman

Day after day people keep dragging up Tacitus as a witness for

a) Big J.
b) early Christians
c) early Christian persecutions

on the basis of a 15th century manuscript "discovery" that was received with reports of forgery.

Why should I shut up about the glittering web of rhetoric that generations of so-called biblical scholars have woven about this, or any other item of evidence that they claims support a, b and c?





Shall I inform Herman Detering that you consider his work to be old and outdated, or would you prefer to compose your own manic rant?

mountainman

Sorry I'm looking at the evidence of pious forgery by the first historian of the "nation of True Christians ^[TM]". And there is plenty of pious forgery by his continuators, in his footsteps, each century, from the 4th to the 21st. Dont you perceive that Eusebius's creative work in the "archives" includes the compilation of the first edition of the "Index Librorum Prohibitorum"

sotto voce

That's worth an apology. Piety is compliance in the observance of religion. Forgery is deceit. No known religious organisation or movement, not even devil-worship, states that deceit is allowed in its followers. Rather, they invariably state that they prohibit deceit.

Now one can certainly look for evidence of impious forgery.

And find it, by the truckload.

aa5874

Please, please!!! This is BC&H not a fish market.

Please, tell us when it was first mentioned that Tacitus wrote about 'Christus' or 'Chrestus' in Annals???

The truth is NOT outdated.

1.Tacitus Annals with 'Christus' or 'Chrestus' was NOT mentioned by any writer of antiquity up to 300 years After Annals was written.

2. Tacitus 'Annals' with 'Christus' or 'Christus' was NOT known to the author of 'Church History' considered to be written in the 4th century. Eusebius used forgeries in Antiquities by Josephus.

3.Tacitus 'Annals' with 'Christus' or 'Chrestus' was NOT used by Origen in "Against Celsus". Origen used unknown passages and forgeries in Josephus.

4. Tacitus 'Annals' with 'Christus' or 'Chrestus' is Contradicted by the very Jesus stories.

5. There were NO Jews called Christians on the day Jesus was crucified in the NT. It was the very JEWS that DEMANDED that Jesus be crucified after Pilate EXONERATED him.

6. Tacitus 'Annals' with 'Christus' or Chrestus is a VERY, VERY late forgery.

It is the evidence that matters. Evidence is NOT out-dated. You also will become outdated but it will ALWAYS be that Tacitus 'Annals' with 'Christus' or 'Chrestus' is a forgery and has NO known provenance until 1000 YEARS after it was written.

The Medicean Manuscript is an 11th century document. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ

mountainman

They store it in a legion of hangars out the back tarmac of the "Genuine Early Christian Evidence Museum" where they keep the Shroud as an entertainment and tourism draw card. I wandered around that museum once, and didn't see anything except the Dura-Europos-Yale "house church". I visited the palaeographical exhibits I wished I could date them via C14. The archaeological relics were cool, especially the "Saviour of the World". There was not much to see in the museum. It was strangely empty.

Didn't have time to check the hangers of forgeries out the back, one for each century between now and this present time. I think I counted 16 hangers.

mountainman

From the archaeological archives of the BC&H scholar James Tabor:

The Fish and the Man…






I have yet to see unambiguous evidence that BC&H is not some sort of fish market.


I have heard from the experts that the fish symbol was an important christian motif in early christian times.


That's why some of the Apostles were fishermen. It starts to make sense if you repeat it. They often visited the fish market.



We are dealing with a hegemonic and organised forgery mill.