Dave Hawkins

He said his "existence," not his creation. I realize that you, being an anti-supernaturlaist, have a hard time with the creation of Adam. That wasn't what I was asking about.

ericmurphy

Dave, when are you going to get it through your cement head that the DH does not in any way depend on the existence of the J, E, D, or P "documents"? It has nothing to do with whether such documents ever existed.

The DH is a textual analysis of the first five books of the Bible, attempting to determine how many individuals were responsible for writing it, and roughly at what times they were written. It has absolutely nothing to say about what particular documents those various accounts were assembled from.

How many times is it going to be necessary to pound this into your skull before you finally get it?

I know fuck-all about biblical scholarship, Dave, but I can at least understand English words and phrases used to describe an hypothesis. That's a skill that appears to be completely beyond you.

ericmurphy

No. Because we know human beings have been on the planet for close to a quarter of a million years, because we know the earth is 4,500 million years old, we know God didn't create the universe in six days 6,000 years ago, and we know the first human wasn't created at that time.

That's how we know, Dave.

Lucretius

If his creation violates natural laws then his very existence after the creation would also violate said natural laws .
You can't have one without the other !
(And now I have that awful "Love & Marriage " song stuck in my head ,thank you very much .)

VoxRat

How about Pasteur's observation about spontaneous generation? We've pretty much taken it as law ever since ol' Louis that modern life forms do not spring into being, fully formed, from sterile dirt.

(And, no, this has nothing to do with the abiogenesis.)
(Why am I certain he's going to go off on that tangent anyway?)

VoxRat

Don't be ridiculous Dave.
Of course someone named "Adam" existed.
I've chatted, personally, with several people named "Adam".

The Adam we're talking about is the one "created" from dirt.

shirley knott

And if we are to believe your version of the story dave, Adam's existence violates:
astronomy
physics
geology
history
archaeology
biology
chemistry
and every other modern science.
That enough for you, or do you want details?

Well, tough. Read up in the areas above and LEARN SOMETHING.
It is impossible, sans miracles, to reconcile the Biblical Adam of your notions with modern science.
Don't believe me? Show me how I'm wrong, in detail.
Start with physics and astronomy.

no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott

ericmurphy

All those finely-tuned physical constants you're always on about, Dave. One of those "finely tuned" constants is the speed of light. It is by knowing the speed of light that we can tell what the observable limits of the universe are. Those limits are 13.7 billion light years away. This tells us that the universe cannot be 6,000 years old. Therefore, Adam could not be coeval with the creation of the universe, since we know the universe, and the earth, are much more than 6,000 years old. How do we know the earth is more than 6,000 years old? Because of radiometric dating techniques, all of which depend on natural laws with respect to radioactive decay being inviolable.

If you want Adam to be coeval with the universe, Dave, then you have to assume the massive violation of multiple natural laws.

ericmurphy

Here goes Dave again. He asks for evidence that disproves his hypothesis. Such evidence is provided. He then asks for more evidence, even though the evidence already given completely invalidates his hypothesis.

Dave, it cannot be that hard to find a source for all the divisions of the DH throughout the pentateuch. Are you unfamiliar with the technology of web searching, using such web search engines as Google?

ericmurphy

The existence of a human being coeval with the creation of the earth violates known natural laws, such as the laws of radioactive decay, which demonstrate that the earth is far older than the human race. Further, a ball of iron weighing 6 X 20²⁴ kg could not cool to room temperature in a week.