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Old 09-01-2004, 10:09 PM   #41
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Default Here is my translation of the German.

The German paragraph that was presented here seems rather fragmented, as if some sentences are missing, in any case, here is my translation (with the german text included;

Quote:
Wenn ich hier die Freude habe, ein neues Denkmal an die Spitze aller Orpheusdarstellungen zu setzen, muß ich ein anderes, das mir fast als das jüngste aller monumentalen Zeugnisse für die orphische Bewegung erschien, streichen und bekennen, daß ich allein daran die Schuld trage, daß es nach der Publikation in den Orphicor. Fragm. S. 46 test. 150 von R. Eisler und anderen, jetzt auch von Guthrie, ohne Bedenken als glaubwürdiges Dokument gewertet wird.
Translation ;
"Now that I have the pleasure to set a new memorial at the top of all Orpheus representations, I must expunge another, which almost appeared to me as the youngest of all monumental testimonies for the orphic movement, and profess that I alone am to blame, because after the publication in the "Orphicor. Fragm. S. 46 test. 150" (this is a reference to a testimonial with page number 46) by Doctor Eisler and others, and now also from Guthrie, these can be valued as creditable documentation without further consideration. "

Quote:
Diesem ist offenbar entgangen, daß das Amulett mit dem Bilde des Crucifixus und der Inschrift OPΦEOΣ BAKKIKOΣ im Kaiser Friedrich-Museum zu

Berlin höchst wahrscheinlich eine Fälschung ist.
Obviously it (the context indicates he is talking about a specific person that omitted something...) must have been omitted, that the amulet with the image of the crucifix and the inscription "OPΦEOΣ BAKKIKOΣ" at the Emperor Friedrich Wilhelm Museum in Berlin is with high probability a fake.

Quote:
Solchen hervorragenden Kennern dieser Materie wie Joh. Reil und Rob. Zahn, die dies im ’Άγγελος 2, 1926, 62ff. ausgesprochen haben, muß man Glauben schenken, und es ist daran kein Anstoß zu nehmen, daß auch dieser italienische Fälscher wie so viele – das Amulett stammt aus Italien, kam aus Ed. Gerhards Nachlaß in das Berliner Museum – gelehrte Kenntnisse hatte und von der Beziehung des Orpheus zu Bakhos wußte.
It must be given credit without offense to such outstanding experts of this matter such as Johannes Reil and Robert Zahn, who have declared this in the "Άγγελος 2, 1926, 62ff.", that even the Italian forger as so many before him had scholarly knowledge and knew about the Orpheus relation to Bakhos. The origin of the amulet is Italy and came to the museum in Berlin from Ed. Gerhard's estate.


LIke I said, the german seeems rather fragmented, like either parts of the german text are missing or that the author is straying in his train of thought.

Fortuna
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Old 09-01-2004, 11:57 PM   #42
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Thanks Fortuna for the translation. Especially the first sentence seems awkward. However, the German is reproduced exactly as presented in the book. The article is six pages long and I could not find anything else in the rest of the text that has anything to do with this paragraph.

Kindly, Roger
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Old 09-02-2004, 02:05 AM   #43
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So it's a different Zahn than I thought. My apologies.
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Old 09-03-2004, 12:55 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorkosigan
So it's a different Zahn than I thought. My apologies.
We have two Zahns?
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Old 09-03-2004, 01:20 AM   #45
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Two Zahns is nothing. We are onto our third Jacob. Why keep changing the name?
 
Old 09-03-2004, 01:45 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Hoffman
We have two Zahns?
Tim, from the 19th century, and Robert, from the 20th.
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Old 09-03-2004, 01:54 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bede
Two Zahns is nothing. We are onto our third Jacob. Why keep changing the name?
We are onto the second Hannam. Why change names? Actually am on the fifth Jacob.

Seriously though, the FBI were hunting me down so I had to go undercover . Why not be nice and not blow my cover like that?

Theodore.
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Old 09-03-2004, 02:03 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorkosigan
Tim, from the 19th century, and Robert, from the 20th.
Hmmmm....such a wide gap. So, are the works of the relevant Zahn available anywhere?

Theodore
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Old 09-03-2004, 07:09 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortuna
Quote:
Wenn ich hier die Freude habe, ein neues Denkmal an die Spitze aller Orpheusdarstellungen zu setzen, muß ich ein anderes, das mir fast als das jüngste aller monumentalen Zeugnisse für die orphische Bewegung erschien, streichen und bekennen, daß ich allein daran die Schuld trage, daß es nach der Publikation in den Orphicor. Fragm. S. 46 test. 150 von R. Eisler und anderen, jetzt auch von Guthrie, ohne Bedenken als glaubwürdiges Dokument gewertet wird.
The author here says that he alone is to blame that Guthrie accepts it as authentic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortuna
Quote:
Diesem ist offenbar entgangen, daß das Amulett mit dem Bilde des Crucifixus und der Inschrift OPΦEOΣ BAKKIKOΣ im Kaiser Friedrich-Museum zu Berlin höchst wahrscheinlich eine Fälschung ist.
Obviously it (the context indicates he is talking about a specific person that omitted something...) must have been omitted, that the amulet with the image of the crucifix and the inscription "OPΦEOΣ BAKKIKOΣ" at the Emperor Friedrich Wilhelm Museum in Berlin is with high probability a fake.
Not quite, "entgangen" in this context means "overlooked". It implies ignorance of the fact that it is a forgery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortuna
LIke I said, the german seeems rather fragmented, like either parts of the german text are missing or that the author is straying in his train of thought.
It is written in a highly formal style with complicated, nested sentences, but it is not fragmented.

I have no knowledge on the subject, I just thought I'd help with the translation.
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Old 09-03-2004, 10:32 AM   #50
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Default Thanks McGargoyle

Dear McGargoyle ,

Thanks for the explanation. I learned German long ago to help with translating science and chemistry texts (my specialty), so I'm a bit better at the techie stuff than literaray commentary. I havent really translated any German for years, but I do have a (usually) good memory and thought I could lend some assistance here.

The complicated sentence structure is what led me to believe that it was fragmented or incomplete. German is more of a hobby with me than a second or third language.

Anyway, thanks again for the explanation and your assistance. Always nice to increase one's knowledge base, (even when dealing with German).

Danka McGargoyle !

F
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