aa5874

Again, your claims are erroneous. You have not read or do not understand the writings attributed to Justin and are making wild DESPERATE unsubstantiated statements.

The actual recovered dated manuscripts DESTROY all claim that the Jesus story and cult originated in the 4th or 5th century.

Duvduv

OK, AA, so go ahead and name the following from Justin's writings for the 2nd century to appeal for the protection of his religion:

a) The countries where his "communities" existed.
b) The cities where his communities existed.
c) The names of his colleagues and predecessors.
d) Where he and his Old Man found out about Christianity.
e) The name of the Old Man.
f) The books authored or possessed by Marcion.
g) The fate of the name "Paui" from the Marcion believers that Justin does not mention.

aa5874

You have got to read the writings attributed to Justin Martyr.

You seem to have NO intention or is incapable of understanding that Justin wrote his Apology on behalf of THOSE OF ALL NATIONS who were UNJUSTLY HATED and ABUSED.

Please, get a dictionary and find out the meaning of "ALL NATIONS".

You seem not to understand that there is NO evidence whatsoever that the cult of Christians originated in the 4th or 5th century.

You seem not to understand that there were many cults of Christians mentioned by Justin--the Marcionites, the Basilidians, the Marcosians, the Saturnilians, the followers of Simon Magus, and Menander.

You seem not to understand that Justin claimed there were Christians in the Roman Empire.

Please, just go and read the writings attributed to Justin.

Sheshbazzar

Still evading my question aa. I asked you WHO?

"WHO was the Christian church's most prolific -KNOWN WRITER- of Christian doctrine and apologetics BEFORE c. 150 CE. aa?
Can't very well be anyone from whom we do not have a single KNOWN WRITING."

WHO aa? Name ONE name.

(And who in the hell is 'Marion' ?)

aa5874

Can't you even recognise a typo?? "Marcion" is the correct word.

How many times do I have to tell you that I do NOT Speculate like you do??

I do NOT invent stories from imagination like you do.

I deal with evidence from antiquity--the written statements.

Justin Martyr was a LAUGHING STOCK c 100-150 CE and did NOT claim he represented the Church or that he was leader, bishop or president of any Christian Cult. See First Apology.

It is claimed that Marcion was the leader of a Christian cult C 100-150 CE

It is claimed that Ignatius was Bishop of a Christian cult in Antioch c 98-117 CE.

It is claimed that there were Christian cults called the Valentinians, Basilidians, Marcosians and Saturnilians c 100-150 CE.

How did you manage to come to the conclusion that Justin " pops in from outside of the existing Christian community, buys himself a philosophers coat, and wallah! He is transformed into Church's foremost spokesperson"?

Sheshbazzar

Still evading my question aa.

"WHO was the Christian church's most prolific -KNOWN WRITER- of Christian doctrine and apologetics BEFORE c. 150 CE. aa?
Can't very well be anyone from whom we do not have a single KNOWN WRITING."

WHO aa? Name ONE name.

aa5874

Why are you cluttering my thread with your absurdities?? You keep on asking me to Speculate.

NO, NO, NO!!! I no longer accept Speculation as evidence from antiquity.

How many times must I tell you that I do NOT speculate??

Is it NOT claimed Aristides wrote an Apology c 117-138 CE??

Is it not claimed Ignatius the Bishop of Antioch wrote c 98-117 CE??

Do we not have ACTUAL recovered dated manuscripts from the 2nd century??

Please, I am really tired with your absurdities when the evidence shows that there were likely to be writings between c 100-150 CE from other Christian cults like the Valentinians, the Basilidians, the Marcosians, the Saturnilians and the Marcionites

Again and again, based on the evidence I cannot and will NOT speculate that Justin "pops in from outside of the existing Christian community, buys himself a philosophers coat, and wallah! He is transformed into Church's foremost spokesperson" ?

I do NOT speculate. I do not argue from imagination. That's your job!!!

Toto

It's Festivus and time for the airing of the grievances.

This thread is going nowhere. Why is anyone still posting here?

I swear by the tentacles of the Flying Spaghetti Monster that this thread will not survive to the New Year.

Sheshbazzar

Yes. There is evidence that Aristides wrote one known single short 'Apology'.
That does not make Aristides into a 'prolific Christian writer'.

Only seven of the Ignatian Epistles are accepted by scholars as being authentic.
Ignatious mentions 'Paul' repeatedly in these writings, and much of what he wrote is patterned on the Pauline Epistles, at times even quoting them word for word. Do you accept that Ignatius was familiar Paul and the Pauline Epistle before c. 117 CE ?

Yes. But that fact alone does not support your implied -speculation- here that Ignatius was writing about 'Paul' and using and quoting the Pauline Epistles before c.117 CE.

We have not recovered any actual Ignatian DOCUMENTS that can be either paleographically or c.14 DATED to the 2nd century.
Nor has any Ignatian writing ever been recovered in a 2nd century CE archaeological situ.
You are -speculating- and -imagining- that there were such.

It is up to you. Do you want to relinquish that -speculative- and imaginative claim you have repeated throughout this thread, that Paul and the Pauline Epistles were not written or known of until after c. 150 CE ?

The writings of Ignatius, if you wish to accept them as being authentic, make a lie out of that speculation.

You can -speculate- and -imagine- that there were no Paul or Pauline Epistles before c.150.
Or
you can -speculate- and -imagine- that these Ignation writings are authentic, and Ignatius actually wrote them before c. 117 CE.

But you cannot rationally -speculate- and -imagine- and claim both. as these -speculations- and -imaginations- are mutually exclusive.
It is either one, the other, or none. No way for both.
If you choose to support your late Paul position. You can drop the Ignatius horse-shit you have been attempting to insert.

Poor aa. Boo hoo. We also get tired of your continuous -speculations-and -imaginations-, assertions, and absurdities from time to time.

Yes, there there is ' evidence shows that there were likely to be writings between c 100-150 CE from other Christian cults'.
Care to produce an actual paleographicaly or c.14 DATED DOCUMENT of one of these -speculated- and -imagined- to have existed writings of yours as your 'evidence' ?

You are -speculating- and -imagining- about the existence of any such document (never yet found)

You are -speculating- and -imagining- about the content of any such document (never yet found)

You are -speculating- and -imagining- about how many copies may have existed (yet not one has never yet been found)

You are -speculating- and -imagining- about how widely known and read by Christians these never yet been found documents were.

You are -speculating- and -imagining- how influential these never yet been found but imagined and speculated writings of the Valentinians, the Basilidians, the Marcosians, the Saturnilians and the Marcionites were.

Kind of makes my little speculation, -based upon the actual content of Justin's writings-, that he began as an outsider to Chistianity (his own admission) and that he 'bought a Philosophers coat' (he was careful to draw attention to his 'dress' and 'costume' in the opening paragraph of 'Dialogue with Trypho') look like a very tiny and insignificant speculation in comparison to these HUGE sweeping -speculations- and -imaginations- that you have been engaging in .

:hysterical:

aa5874

I knew it already. Your confession is noted. Speculation is your job.