Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 11-20-2005, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

I disagree. I see it as both a commission and a prophecy. Bible also says that when the gospel is preached throughout the world, then the end will come. Bible also says that this will happen and that God's word will not return unto him void. Wycliffe translators are ostensibly about five to seven tribal dialects away from translating the Bible into every extant language. exciting isnt it? ( i think Hillary is the anti-christ!) (thats just kidding)

Can you seriously say that there is a nation on earth that has not been preached at by some Christian somewhere? Would this not qualify as a failed prophecy, or is there a highly elastic time frame for so-called fulfillment?

And mata - it would raise the level of dialogue here if you would try to provide some factual basis for your claims. You can look up how many languages the Wycliffe translators have used, how many tribal dialects, how many languages are dying for lack of surviving speakers. . .

pharoah · 11-20-2005, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

I disagree. I see it as both a commission and a prophecy. Bible also says that when the gospel is preached throughout the world, then the end will come. Bible also says that this will happen and that God's word will not return unto him void. Wycliffe translators are ostensibly about five to seven tribal dialects away from translating the Bible into every extant language. exciting isnt it? ( i think Hillary is the anti-christ!) (thats just kidding)

Actually, he promised to set up his kingdom at the end of the Little Commission, but somehow that never materialized either.

Matthew 10:23
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Amaleq13 · 11-20-2005, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

There is no prophecy here to fulfill.

There isn't one there but Matthew 24:14 presents the completion of that commission as part of an End Times prophecy:

"and this good news of the reign shall be proclaimed in all the world, for a testimony to all the nations; and then shall the end arrive." (YLT)

mata leao · 11-20-2005, 02:17 PM

patience pharoah...you dont understand parallel prophecy and the simple fact that jerusalem had to be sacked more than once..... to quote from Mel Gibson in the film "The Patriot"...."soon....very soon"

judge · 11-20-2005, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

Bible prophecy-the gospel (of Jesus Christ) shall be preached throughout the world......."The Spirit of Jesus Christ is very strong in the church in China" President George Bush, speaking today ftom the pulpit of a Christian Church in Beijing China, broadcast throughout the world by satelllite uplink. I would argue that that prophecy is being fulfilled as we watch. Cheers!

Apparently paul thought it was fulfilled 2000 years ago. From colossains chapter 1.

Quote:

21Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[f] your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Jack the Bodiless · 11-20-2005, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

Wycliffe translators are ostensibly about five to seven tribal dialects away from translating the Bible into every extant language. exciting isnt it?

I've seen this claim before. IIRC, the Bible has been translated into less than half of the world's known languages. Why are Christians so fond of hyperbole?

Also, I doubt if GWB's words reached anyone who has never heard of Christianity before, so he isn't actually helping.

There is certainly at least one place where the "Word of God" has never been preached, but I quess most missionaries would become somewhat distracted as their limbs are removed while they're still alive.

...But, yes, this was all supposed to have happened in Paul's time. But he had no idea how big the world really was.

mata leao · 11-20-2005, 03:22 PM

jack you are wrong......prove your affirmative assertion that the Bible has been translated into only half of the worlds languages. Jack, you are not being "accurate"...and no, Paul knew better, Paul was a saint..jack aint!

Snuffy · 11-20-2005, 05:00 PM

Just a quick footnote, for any other lurkers curious, as I was, about the number of languages question:

According to http://www.wycliffe.org/wbt-usa/trangoal.htm

Quote:

# Wycliffe has completed or helped complete the New Testament for people speaking over 611 languages representing over 76 million people.
# We are currently working in 1,376 languages.

...All languages in which Bible translation is in progress: 1,678

And according to http://www.ling.gu.se/projekt/sprakf...i-varlden.html

Quote:

There is a list of the world's languages, called "Ethnologue" (Grimes 1996). There are 6,500 living languages listed. Of these, 6,000 have registered population figures. 52% of the 6,000 languages are spoken by less than 10,000 people, and 28% are spoken by less than 1,000 people. 83% of them are limited to single countries.

This makes the claim that

Quote:

Wycliffe translators are ostensibly about five to seven tribal dialects away from translating the Bible into every extant language. exciting isnt it?

a bit confusing for those of us trying to understand the argument presented.

Sauron · 11-20-2005, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

It is a self-fulfilling prophecy, period. That is because Christians don't just understand this as a prophecy but as a command to be obeyed.

mata leao is correct that the prophecy is being fulfilled but it is important to add that this is because Christians are making it happen. Otherwise, one might mistakenly think the "fulfillment" constitutes evidence of miraculous foresight when it is, in reality nothing but an observation that of the willingness of Christians to obey commands they believe Christ has given to them.

Indeed. mata leao's "prophecy" violates #5 of the criteria we used from the christian website:

1. Clarity: The prophecy must not be ambiguous.
2. Prior Announcement: The prediction must clearly be made before the fulfillment.
3. Independence: The prophet must not be able to cause the prophecy to occur.
4. Likelihood: The prophecy can’t be just a good guess.
5. No Manipulation: The one fulfilling the prophecy cannot be manipulating the circumstances.

Our resident National Debate Champ shows us his skills once again.

Sauron · 11-20-2005, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

jack you are wrong......prove your affirmative assertion that the Bible has been translated into only half of the worlds languages.

Caught you in the act again, mata leao. Are you forgetting something? Your assertion that:

Wycliffe translators are ostensibly about five to seven tribal dialects away from translating the Bible into every extant language.

That assertion came first, Mr. Debate Champ. Jack has no obligation to provide you any proof until you back up your preceding claim.

He who claims, has burden of proof.
He who claims first, has first burden of proof.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

11-20-2005, 02:17 PM	#14
mata leao Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: tampa,florida Posts: 342	patience pharoah...you dont understand parallel prophecy and the simple fact that jerusalem had to be sacked more than once..... to quote from Mel Gibson in the film "The Patriot"...."soon....very soon"

11-20-2005, 03:22 PM	#17
mata leao Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: tampa,florida Posts: 342	jack you are wrong......prove your affirmative assertion that the Bible has been translated into only half of the worlds languages. Jack, you are not being "accurate"...and no, Paul knew better, Paul was a saint..jack aint!

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.