FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-28-2007, 11:30 AM   #1
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 2,579
Default Which was the original: Thomasine or NT saying ?

Of the many Thomasine parallels with NT sayings of Jesus, two strike me as very helpful in determining the probable dating of the Thomas’ gospel traditions.

One is this:

1 Peter 5:8

Be sober, be watchful.. Your adversary the
devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking
someone to devour.

vs GT(7)

Blessed be the lion
who is devoured by the man,
for the man will become
like a lion, and cursed be
the man whom the lion
devours, for the lion becomes
like a man.

Two is this:

Mat 6:3-4

…when you give alms do not let
your left hand know what your
right hand is doing, so that your alms
may be in secret; and your
Father who sees in secret will
reward you.

vs GT(62)

It is to those worthy of my mysteries,
that I tell my mysteries. Do not let
your left hand know what the right hand is doing.


In the two pairs, we have for the Gospel of Thomas a teaching formula, as a paradox, matched by a normative maxim in the canon. Which is the chicken and which the egg ? In both cases, the image appears to be too idiomatic to argue there is no dependence of one saying on the other.

What do people think ? Which context is likely the original for the two sayings ?

Jiri
Solo is offline  
Old 02-28-2007, 12:38 PM   #2
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 430
Default

I can't be sure but I seem to remember something about the left-hand-right-hand thing being a popular hellenized parable of some sort, or maybe used by someone and copied often (Homer?). I could well be mistaken, and I have nothing further.
Casper is offline  
Old 02-28-2007, 05:30 PM   #3
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: usa
Posts: 3,103
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solo View Post
Of the many Thomasine parallels with NT sayings of Jesus, two strike me as very helpful in determining the probable dating of the Thomas’ gospel traditions.

One is this:

1 Peter 5:8

Be sober, be watchful.. Your adversary the
devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking
someone to devour.

vs GT(7)

Blessed be the lion
who is devoured by the man,
for the man will become
like a lion, and cursed be
the man whom the lion
devours, for the lion becomes
like a man.

Two is this:

Mat 6:3-4

…when you give alms do not let
your left hand know what your
right hand is doing, so that your alms
may be in secret; and your
Father who sees in secret will
reward you.

vs GT(62)

It is to those worthy of my mysteries,
that I tell my mysteries. Do not let
your left hand know what the right hand is doing.


In the two pairs, we have for the Gospel of Thomas a teaching formula, as a paradox, matched by a normative maxim in the canon. Which is the chicken and which the egg ? In both cases, the image appears to be too idiomatic to argue there is no dependence of one saying on the other.

What do people think ? Which context is likely the original for the two sayings ?

Jiri
I wouldn't rule out the possibility he said both/either depending on the context. Perhaps the "secret" teachings were taught in private.
gnosis92 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:01 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.