Clivedurdle

Yes actually.

This alleged god is allegedly omnipotent - that I assume includes the ability to communicate clearly with anyone - taking into account alleged interference on the line by Satan. But what do we find? Typical human inconsistency for example about food classification, change of words over time - I assume French was involved - vol and fowl - unclear reasons why some things are unclean when huge chunks of the planet happily eat pork and the bible does not mention ebola.

In this case it is legitimate to shoot the messenger and the message!

Clouseau

The Israelites obviously understood what was meant, and the regulation applies to no-one else.

Doug Shaver

That is flying. Toto was mistaken.

pkropotkin

The problem is that it is nonsense, just as I stated, it's a crap mistake for a human, so ergo it's a crap mistake for god. I listed other problems in Leviticus 11, but of course you sniped them out, I guess following the rules of the Bible. I hardly admitted that these were the only nonsense and inerrancy in the Bible,or even Leviticus 11, so stop with with your strawman. There is no offer of eternal life in Leviticus.

You act as if eternal life is inherently something I should want, I have no desire for eternal life. I've thought about it, and I think that to be immortal, would be one of the greatest tortures I could imagine. Also considering the numerous nonsense in the Bible, it's quite likely that the eternal life given will be extra sucky.

I get free offers often, usually with the crap claims in the offer, and the products are probably crap(but they are probably usually delivered, though sometimes not) and will get you inundated with spam, junk mail, and worse. The effects of taking the offer are far worse than the promised reward, and the promised reward is usually a mere shadow of it's claim. So it is with the Jesus offer, as it requires that you actually honestly believe in Jesus and his message. I would have to alter my standards for believing things, which would mean if I was honest, that I would have to believe in all kinds of crap, or make some dishonest false divide in my brain that would allow me to evaluate other claims by other criteria. The effects of either of these seems much worse to me than some possible eternal life in some other world.

Also it's not clear from the Bible, that believing is actually enough. Also there seems to be a condition, that in excepting the reward of eternal life, you also have to except that others will be tortured eternally, this would cause me to act, in a dramatic fashion, against my ideas of ethical behavior. Some argue that, the Bible doesn't really say that some will be eternally tortured, but I've read it and would say that at best, it is slightly uncertain, which is not good enough for me to still act ethically.

Finally their are numerous religions with offers of eternal life, if that's all it takes to be a good offer, I would have to spend my whole life trying to work out how to follow them all.

This is like a used car salesman showing me an extremely crappy car and acting like if each particular problem, by itself, isn't that bad, it's a good reason to take the free car.

Clouseau

[QUOTE=pkropotkin;4540733]Why did it matter for an Israelite to know that insects have six legs? I can't think of a reason. I can't think of a pressing reason for many people to know it.

I presume you mean a god construct- but it was the understanding of the Israelites that mattered. A real God gave Israelites instructions in terms that they understood, perhaps. That would not mean that a creator of the cosmos didn't know the anatomy of his creatures. The commandments were not a biology lesson, and as long as the Israelites understood what they were to do, that was enough.

I'm happy to deal with all of them, but not all at once, as already stated.

Leviticus would perhaps be buried in obscurity were it not for the New Testament, which does have such an offer. But for the NT, we would probably not be talking.

pkropotkin

because it is obvious. It is as obvious as the number of legs that cows or sheep have. I would be pretty concerned for any agricultural or nomadic herder people who didn't know how many legs a cow had or a grasshopper or locust, that they have to know and deal with often, and also used as a source of food often. My 8 year old intellectual disabled cousin, knows how many legs are on a grasshopper, yet I'm supposed to take advise from someone who seems to have less cognitive abilities than him. If they are such poor observers of nature, what else might they be poor observers of?

No, I mean that I consider it crap nonsense for a human to adduce, so unless we are presupposing a god dumber than most humans, if god said it or allowed it as a criteria, it is also crap.

The problem is that the legedness is a criteria that god allows to be given to winged insects. I'm fairly sure not all Israelis throughout time till Jesus came, believed that insects have four legs, so even presupposing that the Israelis were so dumb at the time, that god couldn't convince them in a mere second that insects had more than four legs, then he should have known that it wouldn't be a workable criteria till Jesus came. One would think that god would be concerned for his people having such a flawed view of nature, and might cause them to make grave errors, like eating all winged insects as none of them have four legs.

Then don't make disingenuous arguments that a single problem is not enough to not take an offer of eternal life, when of course a single problem was not posited. Maybe it would be better if you just dealt with the subject of the thread, instead of your "good offer" proselytizing, which has nothing to do with the accuracy of said Bible passages.

Actually, we probably would be still talking, but you would be talking about the "good offer" of Mithra, or the Elysian mysteries, or Islam or the benefits of dieing in glorious battle to enter the eternal bliss of Valhall.

Toto

I stand corrected on bats. I was probably confusing them with flying squirrels.

Clouseau

[QUOTE=pkropotkin;4540958]So if Moses had said that cows have six legs, would some bright spark not have respectfully ventured to suggest that he had miscalculated just a fraction? Or, if the whole thing is a con, would the authors not have taken more care? If the Israelites knew as much as you say, how is it that such a preposterous error was perpetuated? We must either suppose that the Israelites did not know how many legs insects possess, or that Leviticus does not actually state that insects have four legs, as anyone who has investigated the subject very much is aware may be the case.

Let me know when I do.

I did that some time ago, but, as I expected, someone noticed an adjacent verse. And maybe more will be quoted if it gets dealt with.

You sure know how to insult, anyway!

Clivedurdle

Which one? IPU, FSM, Zeus?

Clivedurdle

http://bestiary.ca/beasts/beast250.htm

Someone did not edit Leviticus in the light of more recent knowledge - now that is interesting. What was that about dark ages again?

And they had met the son of god!