Newton's Cat

Simon of Cyrene had two sons, Alexander and Rufus

Simon bar Kochba had a son called Rufus ... who for a short period led the fight against the Romans after the death of his father.

Simon bar Kochba was declared by some to be the "Messiah"

The 130s ad uprising against the Romans, led by Simon, had its origins in Cyrene in 117 ad.

Conclusion:

The reference to Simon of Cyrene carrying Jesus' cross was either added to a pre-existing story about Jesus ... or the story itself was not written until after the conclusion of the 130s conflict.

My personal opinion about the Story of Jesus is that it originated in a sophisticated PLAY written for an intellectual audience. I see it as having been written 100 years or so after the events it describes ... and that the author did not intend his audience to believe it to be a true story. I also feel that the story as we have it today in Mark is the product of a major alteration of the original text. It was the altered version that became a founding document of Christianity.

paarsurrey

Hi

Is he the same perons called Simon bar Jonah, rememberd by Catholics/Protestants as Peter or Saint Peter?

Would you kindly elaborate?

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

schilling.klaus

exactly, the canonical gospels are all post 130,
for this and many many many other reasons ignored by naive scholars, secular or religious doesn't make a difference.



Already Seneca wrote a similar play, the Hercules Oetaeus, which has many more or less vague parallels to the passion play and other NT stuff, as figured by G.A. van den Bergh van Eysinga.


This has already been figured approximately by J.M. Robertson.

Klaus Schilling

Toto

From another thread:

Simon Bar Kochba did have a son named Rufus, which seems strange - why would a Jewish nationalist give a Roman name to his son? No record of Alexander, though. There was also a local Roman ruler named Rufus at the time.

more

Solitary Man

I thought I was just having deja vu for a moment.

Toto

Here's Ben Smith's original thread from last year: Simon of Cyrene

paarsurrey

Hi

Sorry I didn't know earlier. Now I have checked with wikipedia for
Simon of Cyrene, Simon bar Kochba and Simon bar Jonah:

1. Simon of Cyrene (שמעון "Hearkening; listening", Standard Hebrew �*imʿon, Tiberian Hebrew �*imʿôn) was the person compelled by the Romans to carry the cross of Jesus as Jesus was taken to his crucifixion, according to the Gospel of Mark (15:21-22), Matthew (27:32) and Luke (23:26):
2. Simon bar Kokhba (Hebrew: שמעון בר כוכבא, also transliterated as Bar Kokhva or Bar Kochba) was the Jewish leader who led what is known as Bar Kokhba's revolt against the Roman Empire in 132 CE, establishing an independent Jewish state of Israel which he ruled for three years as Nasi ("prince," or "president"). His state was conquered by the Romans in 135 CE following a two-year war. He became the last king of Israel in history.
3. The Apostle Peter, also known as Saint Peter (from the Greek Petros, meaning "rock"), Shimon "Keipha" Ben-Yonah/Bar-Yonah, Simon Peter, Cephas and Keipha (Keipha and Cephas also mean rock)—original name Shimon or Simeon (Hebrew: שמעון‎) ( (Acts 15:14)—was one of the Twelve Apostles whom Jesus chose as his original disciples.
All four canonical gospels recount that, during the Last Supper, Jesus foretold that Peter would deny association with him three times that same night. In Matthew's account, this is reported as:
Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock[3] crow, thou shalt deny me thrice."[4]
and that Peter did in fact do so, while Jesus was on trial before the high priest.

Thanks

Huon

Rufus could also be a nickname, meaning "red haired". It is well known (pop wisdom) that the red-haired people are quick-tempered, and prone to revolutionary actions.

andrewcriddle

The earliest source for the claim that Simon bar Kochba had a son named Rufus (and a grandson named Romulus !!!) seems to be Ibrahim ibn Daud in the Book of Tradition (Sefer Ha-Qabbalah) in c 1161 CE.

Possibly there is a confusion with the contemporary Roman governor Rufus, but ibn Daud's account is rather strange. Koziva (Kochba) revolts in the time of Domitian and the revolt is continued by his son Rufus and his grandson Romulus. Hadrian makes war against Romulus ben Rufus ben Koziva and kills him in the sack of Betar. (Source Richard Marks The Image of Bar Kokhba)

It is unlikely that this has any relation to the historical Simon bar Kochba.

Andrew Criddle

Solitary Man

Besides the dubious source, there wasn't a Rufus or Romulus from Palestine to continue the revolt. The Bar Kokhba revolt was the last Jewish revolt.