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Old 07-15-2009, 06:50 PM   #1
tradewinds
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Default Beginnings of Religion, particularly Judaism

Edenic, or Ednic dispensation, Garden of Eden
Age of positive volition, creation of mankind to fall, it is not known as to its time of beginning

This began in the age when human’s were animals, they had no thinking ability much beyond modern chimpanzee, but they evolved into a more intelligent creature and when this occurred, the humanoid became aware of itself, self-conscious and aware of death. This was the loss of paradise and the beginning of religion. From this point on, humans have feared for themselves and had the urge to control each other, as animals do through dominance, but humans used the ability to communicate abstractly, they could convince other of reasons to fear them.

The myth of the Ednic dispensation was that humans fell from grace; this explains the fate of human nature. The most well known story is god made a man then a woman and they were more than human, but fell from grace. Then their first sons were the names of the two ways of human cultural beginnings, the domestication of animals and the growing of crops. The greater culture was agricultural, thus Cain killed Able. In reality, many humanoids came to the state of consciousness and this led to the making of mythology and later organised into religion.

Humans have the ability to explain themselves, by rational mythmaking and this also served to justify a corrupt social system, because god made it so. Now with science, these myths have little validity or use because even those who believe it, will not choose freely to be enslaved by it, thus it has lost its purpose and now it is a rational learned elite that rules, not absolutely. No humans today worship the rich and powerful, although they admire media stars.
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Old 07-16-2009, 09:35 AM   #2
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Humans have the ability to explain themselves, by rational mythmaking and this also served to justify a corrupt social system, because god made it so. Now with science, these myths have little validity or use because even those who believe it, will not choose freely to be enslaved by it, thus it has lost its purpose and now it is a rational learned elite that rules, not absolutely. No humans today worship the rich and powerful, although they admire media stars.
I disagree. I think that mythology can be helpful in illuminating human behaviour, even if it's not "true" in any historical sense.

The garden of Eden can be read as the state of childhood innocence we all lose as adults. Being ejected is similar to the process of leaving one's family home and finding a life in the wider world. The bookend is revelation, coming back to God or insight after experiencing adult disillusion. It's the Greek comic form, also used in Job: starting from happiness, descending into misery, re-ascending back to an original or improved state of contentment.
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Old 07-16-2009, 09:52 AM   #3
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Edenic, or Ednic dispensation, Garden of Eden
Age of positive volition, creation of mankind to fall, it is not known as to its time of beginning

This began in the age when human’s were animals, they had no thinking ability much beyond modern chimpanzee, but they evolved into a more intelligent creature and when this occurred, the humanoid became aware of itself, self-conscious and aware of death. This was the loss of paradise and the beginning of religion. From this point on, humans have feared for themselves and had the urge to control each other, as animals do through dominance, but humans used the ability to communicate abstractly, they could convince other of reasons to fear them.

The myth of the Ednic dispensation was that humans fell from grace; this explains the fate of human nature. The most well known story is god made a man then a woman and they were more than human, but fell from grace. Then their first sons were the names of the two ways of human cultural beginnings, the domestication of animals and the growing of crops. The greater culture was agricultural, thus Cain killed Able. In reality, many humanoids came to the state of consciousness and this led to the making of mythology and later organised into religion.

Humans have the ability to explain themselves, by rational mythmaking and this also served to justify a corrupt social system, because god made it so. Now with science, these myths have little validity or use because even those who believe it, will not choose freely to be enslaved by it, thus it has lost its purpose and now it is a rational learned elite that rules, not absolutely. No humans today worship the rich and powerful, although they admire media stars.
I agree that religions began very early on in human history, but I think gods were created by men to explain what they didn't understand. In the beginning they had gods for just about everything because they understood so little of their surroundings, gods for the sky, gods for weather, for rivers and other bodies of water, etc. By the time the axial age came around a thousand or so years before the common era mankind had a rudimentary understanding of these things so the mysteries were more internal, "why are we here", etc., so the gods became more personal.

I think the myths of the peoples of the "fertile crescent" were adaptations of earlier myths when they had gods for everything. Adapted because it would be familiar with the followers.
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Old 07-16-2009, 11:05 PM   #4
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Unless this discussion is intended to focus on the texts relevant to the OP, this thread will be moved to GRD. Let us know.

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Old 07-17-2009, 07:07 AM   #5
Tristan Scott
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I think both responses are specifically relevent to the OP. The OP is specifically talking about Genesis, is it not? Genesis is, as we all know here in BC&H, a compilation of earlier texts which most likely evolved from "caveman" religions.

Is this not what we are discussing here? Is the title of the thread not Beginnings of Religion, particularly Judaism ? Is Tradewinds not discussing the origin of the myths found in Genesis?

Maybe not. Where is Tradewinds?
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:17 PM   #6
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Hi,

I am not able to log on very often. I think the topic is a relevant discussion about our current ways of perceiving how beliefs and mythology will differ when western culture confronts other cultures. Yes, the myths are important, but one must know as to why sometimes our sense of value, or right and wrong differs with other cultures. Asians have a much different approach to the ways or reacting, based on their own unique collective unconscious, which it derived from their myths.

I have discovered that by explaining my own cultural myths, I receive a more harmonious outcome with people I work with daily. I have no idea about this until I began to realize that often other people from other cultures would attempt to explain things and once came across arrogant because I did not know about these aspects social relations.

Now since I have been willing to explain my own myths, even though I do not actually believe them, they are part of my culture. I was quite surprised to find others interested in my own western history of mythology.

Therefore, yes, it has value and is appreciated when conveyed and understood.

Have to run, have a good one and I hope the site stay up.

Tradewinds
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:23 PM   #7
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I should probably add a note here; I do thing most cultures have simpler primitive myths regarding the beginnings of human life and culture. Our western adaptation of the Jewish mythology and the Hellenistic transitives in Christendom is a vital part of who we are and even if one knows it is mythology, it is still relevant and helps us to know ourselves better
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Old 07-23-2009, 06:37 PM   #8
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Edenic, or Ednic dispensation, Garden of Eden
Age of positive volition, creation of mankind to fall, it is not known as to its time of beginning

This began in the age when human’s were animals, they had no thinking ability much beyond modern chimpanzee, but they evolved into a more intelligent creature and when this occurred, the humanoid became aware of itself, self-conscious and aware of death. This was the loss of paradise and the beginning of religion. From this point on, humans have feared for themselves and had the urge to control each other, as animals do through dominance, but humans used the ability to communicate abstractly, they could convince other of reasons to fear them.

The myth of the Ednic dispensation was that humans fell from grace; this explains the fate of human nature. The most well known story is god made a man then a woman and they were more than human, but fell from grace. Then their first sons were the names of the two ways of human cultural beginnings, the domestication of animals and the growing of crops. The greater culture was agricultural, thus Cain killed Able. In reality, many humanoids came to the state of consciousness and this led to the making of mythology and later organised into religion.

Humans have the ability to explain themselves, by rational mythmaking and this also served to justify a corrupt social system, because god made it so. Now with science, these myths have little validity or use because even those who believe it, will not choose freely to be enslaved by it, thus it has lost its purpose and now it is a rational learned elite that rules, not absolutely. No humans today worship the rich and powerful, although they admire media stars.

I'd rather think the story is a tribal legacy with Adam as the first tribal chieftan taking his wife from a kindred tribe. Their begotten sons were confederate peoples who joined the Adam's family, much the same as Hebrews and other tribal people joined themselves to the house of Abraham.

Humans existed many thousands of years before the story of Adam and Eve, the happy tribal couple, whereof the Hebrews laid claim to that heritage.
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Old 07-24-2009, 02:51 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Tristan Scott View Post
Genesis is, as we all know here in BC&H, a compilation of earlier texts which most likely evolved from "caveman" religions.
What is that based on? My reading of the Hebrew religion's origins are based on 100% logical doctrines and a clear separation from caveman and humanity's hitherto past. Abraham left his country and religion because of a thought which changed not only humanity but the universe itself: Monotheism. This factor alone makes all other religions, philosophies and ideologies mythical.
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Old 07-24-2009, 03:11 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by storytime View Post

I'd rather think the story is a tribal legacy with Adam as the first tribal chieftan taking his wife from a kindred tribe. Their begotten sons were confederate peoples who joined the Adam's family, much the same as Hebrews and other tribal people joined themselves to the house of Abraham.
The standout factors of the Genesis adam/eve story is:

1. Humans begat a higher consciousness, transcendent from other life forms. VINDICATED.

2. That this occured via the unique trait of speech. VINDICATED.

3. That there is a controversy about 'WHEN & HOW' this occured - not IF this occured. According to the Genesis Calendar, this happened less than 6000 years ago, and we have here the evidential back-up of history [non-existant outside 6000], speech [ditto], a diarized calendar [powerful evidence], a listed geneaology [ditto], authentic contemporary 'names' [a scientific factor], and not a single disputational evidence outside recent ToE science views.

The above vindicated factors, inroduced for the first time, takes the subject well outside the 'myth' category, and is the first scientific, historical and mathematical positations of humanity's origins.

The disputational factors, all made recently, are related to fossils being ratified as all life occured from one life millions of years ago, and that humans evolved from an animal millions of years ago, and that speech is an evolutionary elevation from an animal. The evidence for this is far less than that of genesis, while only Genesis can vindicate its factors today.

No matter which of those two one inclines with - the myth factor is more heavily inclined with ToE.

Quote:
Humans existed many thousands of years before the story of Adam and Eve, the happy tribal couple, whereof the Hebrews laid claim to that heritage.
If they did, this is not determinable by fossils. We do NOT have a 'NAME' older than 6000.
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