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Old 08-03-2006, 09:35 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by aa5874
No way, you cannot prove that. There is no person named Saulus in the NT. How do you guys come up with those stories, without any supporting evidence whatsoever?
No person named Saulus in the NT? Maybe your copy of the NT is missing Acts 7:58; 8:1, 3; 9:1, 8, 11, 22, 24; 11:25, 30; 12:25; 13:1, 2, 7, and 9. Mine isn't.

Stephen
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Old 08-03-2006, 09:42 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Toto
Kenneth Humphries has posted a new essay on his site, www.jesusneverexisted.com - St. Paul the Apostle: Up Close and Personal.
He spells his name Humphreys.

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To summarize briefly, Humphries thinks that the letters from Paul were written by Marcion to give his own philosophy a historical basis, and were then appropriated and jazzed up by the Catholic faction.
If Paul did not exist, where did Marcion get the idea for him? More particularly, based solely on the material in the letters, what made Marcion think that any Christian would pay any attention to whatever its purported author had to say, if this way a man no Christian had ever heard of before?

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The Catholic faction then wrote the fictional book of Acts to turn Paul into a complaint, domesticated 13th apostle.
I agree that Acts was a work of fiction.

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even if the epistles are largely invented or interpolated, it seems likely to me that there was a historical Paul at some time
Somebody had to write them. The author claims to have been an itinerant Christian preacher acquainted with the leadership of a group of Christians in Jerusalem, among whom he identifies three as Cephas, James, and John. That such a person existed, and that he wrote a few letters that survived long enough to be preserved for posterity, is not improbable on its face. Assuming his existence, that a fictional version of his ministry would have been incorporated into a fictional account of Christianity's origins is pretty nearly to be expected.
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Old 08-03-2006, 09:47 PM   #33
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I take it that Humphries makes the argument that Paul’s conversion is incredible on its face.
The way the author of Acts tells it, it is.

The author of the Pauline epistles says he was converted, but he says essentially nothing about how it happened. He also tells us nothing useful about his previous life except that he persecuted the church, and even that doesn't really say anything. We have all seen what some Christians can construe as persecution.
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Old 08-03-2006, 09:54 PM   #34
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What if Paul really lived and established churches throughout Asia Minor, but didn't write anything, like most of his other contemporaries?
If the letters were faked, what evidence is there that he established any churches?
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Old 08-03-2006, 10:02 PM   #35
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We don't even know who authored the gospels.
Whoever the authors were did not claim to be the man whose opinions they were promulgating.
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Old 08-03-2006, 10:22 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by S.C.Carlson
No person named Saulus in the NT? Maybe your copy of the NT is missing Acts 7:58; 8:1, 3; 9:1, 8, 11, 22, 24; 11:25, 30; 12:25; 13:1, 2, 7, and 9. Mine isn't.

Stephen
Nonsense, you are fabricating names. The NT was written in Greek not Latin. Saul is the name in all the verses you quoted.
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Old 08-03-2006, 11:02 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Toto
Kenneth Humphries has posted a new essay on his site, www.jesusneverexisted.com - St. Paul the Apostle: Up Close and Personal.
I notice that Humphreys has a book for sale Jesus Never Existed
Has anyone read this? Looks like a bit of a mishmash of the usual suspects - anything original?
Entertaining site, seems well written.
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Old 08-04-2006, 05:57 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by aa5874
Nonsense, you are fabricating names. The NT was written in Greek not Latin. Saul is the name in all the verses you quoted.
All the verses I cited have Σαυλος, not Σαουλ.

Stephen
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Old 08-04-2006, 10:08 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by aa5874
Nonsense, you are fabricating names. The NT was written in Greek not Latin. Saul is the name in all the verses you quoted.
Saulus is the Latin transcription of the Greek Σαυλος. As Stephen mentions, he's closer to the original than you.
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Old 08-04-2006, 10:59 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Chris Weimer
Saulus is the Latin transcription of the Greek Σαυλος. As Stephen mentions, he's closer to the original than you.
So from Greek to English, the name is Saul. From Greek to Latin, the name is Saulus.

But in any event how can we link the 'Saulus' in Josephus with Saul/Paul in the NT?
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