Magus55

Maybe Luke is referring to Judas giving the cheif priests the money to buy the field. It sounds like Luke is speaking more generically, that Judas payed for the field, but did so through a third party. He essentially bought it with the money he got for betraying Jesus. For example, if I give a friend of mine 20 dollars, and tell him to go get me some food, even If i don't go to get the food, I still bought it with my money.

jbernier

Yes, that is the way I heard it as a child. Problem: Why would Luke leave up a little detail like the fact that Judas intentionally terminated his life? Either way, in one account the priests buy the land after Judas died (using the money he gave back) and in the other Judas buys it himself (using the money he did not give back). How do you reconcile that?

Gregg

I did an apologetics on that. Magus seems to agree with my explanation, see above. (Not that I buy it myself!)

jbernier

Yeah, but if you throw 20 dollars at him, do not tell him to go get you some food but to keep the money, then you kill yourself, then he buys food with the 20 dollars could we honestly say that you bought it yourself? 'Cause that is what you are saying happens in that text. This is where inerrancy and literalism breaks down: In order to preserve the illusion that Matthew and Acts agree you have to ignore Acts when it says that "With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field". Judas does it. No mention of the priests anywhere in the story. Inserting the priests is far from the most literal, straightforward, reading of the text. So far for letting the text speak for itself.

judge

Quite serious actually. You can cherck out this thread for more discussion.

The word translated "hanged himself" in the KJV is apanchomai from
the Greek word apancho. It is used only once in the NT. However in
classical literature it means "to strangle" or "to choke" and is used
figuratively to mean to choke with anger or grief.
Henry George Liddell and Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, rev. by
Henry S Johnes (1843; 9th ed., Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940), p.174.

This word IIRC is used figuratively rather then literally in classical writings, that being Aristophanes vespae 686 (from memory)

Note also that the following texts have apeuchomai which means "to wish a thing away"
(MSS 803, 875, 983, 1415, 1608, 2521, and 2539).

and that One manuscript has the
word apopnigo, which is also used figuratively "to choke with vexation
or rage" (MS 273).
These of course are all different translations of the aramaic



Judas is alive because Paul tells us Jesus appeared to the twelve after this event but before Judas is replaced.
Also Jesus appears to the eleven when Thomas is absent.
If we take this one word figuratively ALL the other verses make sense.

Gregg

I just thought of something. A straightforward reading of the text shows that Judas threw the money down, then immediately went and hung himself. Soon afterwards, the priests take the money and buy the potter's field as a cemetary for foreigners. Nowhere is it mentioned that the potter's field happens to be the same field where Judas just hung himself. Another odd detail to leave out. I mean, I guess it could make sense that the priests just bought the field and made it a cemetary so they wouldn't have to move Judas' stinking, split-open remains, but why doesn't Matthew just say so?

knuckles644

Please, tell us, what are the real ones?

judge

Quite correct.
If we look behind the english translations we soon find the solution.

The field mentioned in Matthew is not the same field mentioned in Acts and the Thirty pieces of silver is not "the reward of iniquity".

In the Aramaic and in the greek two different words are used to describe two different fields.
The word used in Aramaic in Matthew is "srwg" and the word used in the greek is "agros" (field).
But the word used in acts is "lgx" in Aramaic and "chorion" in the greek, indicating a property.

From another discussion .
Yet another discussion touches on Judas's hanging.
My photo is there as well.

Sven

Why doesn't it ever occur to you, Magus, that this makes not the slightest sense? A society composed of mostly people like Hitler would quickly erase itself - no chance to exist for 100 years. Thanks for showing another contradiction in the bible!

Sven

And he of course missed the rope around his neck... and "Luke" of course didn't speak with "Matthew" about the event...
Magus, Magus, will you ever present something with common sense in it?