Clivedurdle

Is the alleged ending of Judaic sacrifices with the destruction of the Temple in AD70 an important piece of historical evidence about the change from immanent to transcendental gods?

Maybe that incident is very important in launching xianity.

gstafleu

As I said, sacrificing to a super-transcendent god really doesn't make much sense. I suspect that the Jews must have had an inkling of this and felt uncomfortable about it. In that sense, stopping the sacrifices could even have been a reinforcement of transcendence.

I don't think that Judaism itself abolished transcendence, rather it was its Christian offshoot. And interestingly, Christianity posited as its origin a sacrifice (which is a very immanent, very kata sarka thing), the mother of all sacrifices so to speak, where the deity reconnected itself to the earthly realm by in effect sacrificing himself. This mega-sacrifice was so effective that as of then the connection with the deity was assumed to have been established for all times, no more sacrifices were necessary (to slightly paraphrase Hebrews ).

One must admire the ingenuity of the idea. How does a super-transcendent god reestablish the connection with the earthly realm? Well, let him do that very kata sarka thing, a sacrifice, and not just that, let him sacrifice himself to himself, bringing the idea of sacrifice full-circle, which cannot fail to firmly reestablish connectivity!

Gerard Stafleu

Clivedurdle

See the not all flesh thread.

Why is it that in xian's day to day thinking and rituals and in the structure of all church services, the life of Jesus is a minor sub plot? Xmas and Easter cannot really be considered as related to his life - there do seem to be strong theological overtones!

Solo

1 Cr 10:14-33 denounces sacrifices to idols/demons and Paul specifically denies these are comparable to the sacrifices Jews make to God, or to simple partaking in a meal with non-believers. Nor does the passage in any way indicate that Paul has in mind "better way of communicating", much less a with "partly earthly, immanent, kata sarka Christ" - whatever that is. Paul knew no such ugly thing. The only Christ Paul knew was the one crucified - kata sarka (,and for those who know Czech slang, basta fidli).

Jiri

Amaleq13

Does anybody have a credible explanation for Paul choosing to use this "odd" phrase to describe both the unique nature of the incarnated Christ and mundane lineage or descent?

GakuseiDon

I think that Doherty did do that? Both Paul (on earth) and Christ (above the earth but still in the "zone of corruption") were in "the sphere of the flesh", therefore they could both be referred to as being "kata sarka".

As Doherty wrote earlier in this thread:

"Christ may have a relationship with “flesh” in the mystical sense, especially when performing his redemptive acts, but during those acts he also took on a sort of “flesh” and entered a “fleshly realm”, perhaps below the moon or simply some sort of mythical “other place” where something like crucifixion or hanging on a tree when “in the likeness” of a human could take place. This sort of thinking, of course (despite Don’s adamant protests), can be found in the mythological outlook of the time."

Amaleq13

No, that tells me why one could use the phrase for both. It doesn't explain why Paul would choose to use such an "odd" phrase to describe both.

I think everyone agrees the phrase is odd. Right?

It is understandable why Paul would choose such an odd phrase to describe the nature of his incarnated Christ given the uniqueness of that nature. Right?

It is not so understandable, at least to me, why Paul would also choose the same odd phrase to refer to mundane flesh and descent.

Does that make my question more clear?

Chris Weimer

No, not everyone agrees that the phrase is odd. How many times has it been pointed out in other Greek writers the same phrase?

Amaleq13

None in this thread and Earl asked for them:

If it isn't actually odd, I think that would answer the question.

Chris Weimer

I thought this was settled ages ago. Ben has had this up on his website.