Johnny Skeptic

http://freethought.mbdojo.com/josephus.html

Minimalist

No.

Toto

These are interesting commentaries, but they are on the order of a century old.

Ken Olson in "Eusebius and the Testimonium Flavianum," Catholic Biblical Quarterly, 61 (1999) shows that it is highly probably that Eusebius is the author of the interpolation. The article was online at one point, but no longer seems to be, and Olson has not updated his blog in a few years.

The real question is whether any first century authors would have mentioned Jesus, and the answer depends on your assumptions about who the historical Jesus was.

wordy

What could we compare with. Television-evangelists? Jesus was just one of very many such wandering preachers. That Constantin used him was his way to fame.

Hadn't Constantin had use of him we had no way of knowing he ever had existed.

Or Constantin made him up.

Roger Pearse

I'm not sure that Ken's arguments convinced the academy, tho. They didn't convince me, actually.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

InnocentSmith

I disagree. Christianity was flourishing even under persecution. It definitely received a boost by state sanctioning, but I would argue that it would have survived and expanded without it. Granted, it never would have become what it did, but we certainly would have known of Jesus.

.....No.

judge

Hmmm..which first century historians do you expect might have mentioned him?

Can we have some names of the first century historians that you think should have mentioned him?

Thanks.

Jo

Pliny Elder (24 CE to 79 CE) who wrote History of his Times.

Arrian of Nicomedia (86 CE to 146 CE) who wrote The Campaigns of Alexander as well as other works about the military.

Petronius (27 CE to 66 CE) who wrote Satyricon.

Paterculus (19 CE to 31 CE) who wrote Edito Princeps.

Plutarch (46 CE to 127 CE) who wrote Parallel Lives (among other things).

Tacitus (56 CE to 117 CE) who wrote The Annals and is often cited as a source for the authenticity oof Jesus.

Apollonius of Tyana (1 CE to 97 CE) who wrote Philostratus.

Quintilian (35 CE to 100 CE) who wrote Institutio Oratoria.

Lucanus (39 CE to 65 CE) who was a Roman Poet.

Epictetus (65 CE to 135 CE) who wrote The Discourses.

Statius (45 CE to 96 CE) who was a Roman Poet.

Appian (95 CE to 165 CE) who wrote Roman History.

There are more but I'm heading out for lunch.

EDIT: These people listed above were in the Roman court - some one of Jesus' stature would get a wide mention by them? The Annals sure, but that's always been up for debate.

judge

Thanks for that. It looks , by your use of the question mark, that you dont necessarily think they would mention Jesus.
Do I read you right?
If not can you explain which of these would havementioned him and where?

Thanks.

Jo

Hi, Judge

The only one of that list that supposedly mentions Jesus is Tacitus. The reason I posted that list is because there were numerous writers in that period, in that vicinity, that did not write about Jesus.

My apologies for any confusion. I could of added Josephus but his works are so much under contention, that it was not worth it (IMHO).

Cheers.