rhutchin

The Bible gives us this information--

Philippians 2
7 [Christ] made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Hebrews 2
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, [Christ] also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;...
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Hebrews 4
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

So, we have God taking the form of a man (Christ) becoming subject to temptation and death. I also find this difficult to understand and have no explanation beyond what is given above.

rhutchin

Not that it does not make sense but that we lack complete information. It is not unusual to have to take a position on something (i.e., believe something) before one has all the information that would confirm that belief. Religion is not the only area where this is done.

rhutchin

We might go further. God is described as a spirit having no physical form. God then took the physical form of a man that we know as Christ. In the form of that person (Christ), God lived among people, was tempted like people, and suffered a physical death. God says that He gives His spirit to those whom He saves and we call this spirit the Holy Spirit. That spirit then provides direction to the person. As an illustration, it might be like an airline pilot who sits in the cockpit and is never seen, but then puts on a different uniform to serve drinks and then communicates with passengers over the intercom.

JPD

I believe that various mind altering substances can cause a similar effect.
"I thought I was flying a passenger jet but I was actually on the beach at the time sipping diesel when the brakes on my go-cart went and I fell out of the helicopter"

God is, then, a half invisible amoeba with a gargantuan brain who hopes you enjoyed your flight and will consider flying again by participating in an online discussion forum engaging in disjointed conversation and employing hallucinogenic analogies?

CJD

Steven, I know exactly what mystery meant in a first-century context. One doesn't earn a professional degree in this stuff or work in this field without being aware of such elementary bits of information like this. Please give me the benefit of the doubt.

Exactly my point. And this tension arises when we take Nicea into account — homo-ousias and all that. Scholastic theologians will say something to the effect: "Jesus in his human nature was separated from God and suffered accordingly. But in his divine nature he was not separated from God, nor did he suffer, for God is immutable." Dividing a person in this manner, it seems, cannot be derived from any biblical text.

It was not a feeling; it was an act symbolized by the hanging of this guy on a cross, for "cursed is he who hangs on a tree." Get it?

CJD

gregor

CJD - Give us skeptics a break, we can only deal with reality, 'cuz that's all we've been given to deal with.

If in the past 2,000 years there had been some evidence presented to support a trinitarian deity (not a nicene mind game), we might have to allow for some extra-reality to allow for an explanation.

CJD

Duly noted.

Incidentally, I'm the most skeptic Christian I know. Which one of you goes to bed at night (after turning off a light bulb, so Bultmann) questioning every metaphysical thing he believes about reality? (I guess if you did grapple with your metaphysical beliefs, then you wouldn't be skeptics. — duh!)

John A. Broussard

Thank you.

It's unfortunate that more Christians can't come right out and admit that they believe something they don't understand. It makes discussion a lot simpler since there's no longer any need for the non-believer to ask for an explanation.

rhutchin

Yes, as the Bible says also--

Hebrews 11
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

I may not understand gravity and may not be able to explain it, but I still take advantage of it all the time. I may not understand everything there is about God, but I can still follow His laws and gain the benefit from doing so.

John A. Broussard

Fascinating!

Equating your lack of understanding of something that doesn't exist with something that you know exists speaks well about the way you think.

We (both you and I) have evidence every day about the nature of gravity (though there is a current "falling by design" theory which denies the existence of gravity and states that it's just god's hand holding us down--but I think it's safe to leave that behind even though you may want to resort to that explanation).

However, I have no evidence of your god's existence, while you claim you do. There is a very real difference in the understanding of those two concepts "gravity" and "god."

Making them equivalent in "understanding" is utterly absurd.