Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 01-22-2013, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Quote:

After the Jews pierced the Son of God ...

When and where did the JEWS ever kill or pierce this Jebus character?

The story is very clear that it was the Imperial ROMAN government and its soldiers who convicted, crucified, killed, and pierced (Jhn 19:34) Jebus.

It wasn't the JEWS that killed The Christ, it was the ROMANS.

The Imperial ROMAN government, that Scarlet Colored Beast of Revelations 17:3 did the dirty deed. ....figures.

I am REPEATING the statement from a 2nd century apologetic writer. Aristides has testified that the Jews PIERCED the Son of God called Jesus in a letter to Hadrian supposedly composed c 117-138 CE.

I have another Apologetic writer and he will TESTIFY that the Temple was made desolate because the Jews killed the Son of God.

Hippolytus' Treatise Against the Jews

Quote:

But why, O prophet, tell us, and for what reason, was the temple made desolate? .......... it was because they killed the Son of their Benefactor, for He is coeternal with the Father.

Apologetic writers Justin Martyr and Tertullian also claimed or implied that the Jews killed Jesus.

Sheshbazzar · 01-23-2013, 12:13 AM

Oh I can find thousands of 'Christian' writings and writers that claimed that the Jews were 'Christ killers' or that the 'Jews pierced Jebus'.

But that libelous claim is not at all supported by the story that is related in the Gospels.

There is not a line to be found stating that JEWS crucified, killed, or ever pierced any person called Jesus the Christ.

The Gospel texts are clear. It was the government and soldiers of IMPERIAL ROME that unjustly condemned, crucified, killed, and pierced the Son of God.

Jews could not make ROMANS kill Jebus. The ROMAN govorners killed Jebus because the ROMAN governors -CHOSE- to kill Jebus.

They didn't give a flying f..iddle what those lunatic Jewish religious barbarians wanted.

aa5874 · 01-23-2013, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Oh I can find thousands of 'Christian' writings and writers that claimed that the Jews were 'Christ killers' or that the 'Jews pierced Jebus'.

But that libelous claim is not at all supported by the story that is related in the Gospels.

There is not a line to be found stating that JEWS crucified, killed, or ever pierced any person called Jesus the Christ.

The Gospel texts are clear. It was the government and soldiers of IMPERIAL ROME that unjustly condemned, crucified, killed, and pierced the Son of God.

Jews could not make ROMANS kill Jebus. The ROMAN govorners killed Jebus because the ROMAN governors -CHOSE- to kill Jebus.

They didn't give a flying f..iddle what those lunatic Jewish religious barbarians wanted.

I am presenting the statements of Apologetic writers so I do not know how you can say that it was libelous for Apologetics to claim the Jews killed Jesus but NOT libelous that the Romans killed him.

You seem to think that we doing actual history.

Neither the Jews or the Romans killed Jesus Christ.

We have versions of the Jesus story where Jesus was born of a Ghost and transfigured and other versions without the birth narrative and the transfiguration.

All we have are different versions of fiction just like we have different versions of Romulus and Remus or Jewish,Roman and Greek Mythology.

But what is certain is that there are now copies of Apologetic sources which state that the JEWS KILLED Jesus.

aa5874 · 01-23-2013, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

what is certain is that there are now copies of Apologetic sources which state that the JEWS KILLED Jesus.

Yes aa, I agree with you that the Jezus of the NT was entirely mythical.
In fact I do not accept that there ever was even any actual person that even inspired the NTs fabricated tall tale.
There was no Jezus of Nazareth, the character is entirely a religious invention. Was I clear enough on that aa?

But is was those 'copies of Apologetic sources which state that the JEWS KILLED Jesus.'
which have caused countless thousands of very real Jews to be robbed, terrorised, persecuted, murdered, and executed by the Christians that bought and believed into this fabricated lie.

Quote:

You seem to think that we doing actual history.

Jezus wasn't real but those poor unjustly accused and massacred Jews were very real.
And it is very real actual history what the Jews have had to suffer because of these famous Christian lies.

And for all that, as I pointed out, The NT text does not at all support this lie, that it was the Jews that killed Jezus.

According to the NTs actual Gospel story THE JEWS ABSOLUTELY DID NOT KILL OR PIERCE JEZUS.

And only latter evil lying men -who either did not know, or believe The NT record- make the claim that they did.

You probably do not understand the Jesus story in the Canon.

It was the Jews, the Sanhedrin, who DELIVERED up Jesus to be KILLED.

In the Gospels, it is was the Jews that demanded that Jesus be crucified.

Mark 15

Quote:

12 And Pilate answered and said again unto them, What will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews? 13 And they cried out again, Crucify him. 14 Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done ? And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.

Sheshbazzar · 01-23-2013, 06:55 PM

And it was the ROMAN judge who passed the Death Sentence, and it was ROMAN soldiers that carried it out.

None of them had to obey a (apparently quite small) Jewish mob. Remember 'Christ' had thousands of supporters.

The DECISION to find no fault and to excuse, or execute, was entirely within ROMAN hands and power according to the Gospel texts.

And the Decision to Execute, as it were a frivolous matter, was made by a ROMAN judge (Pontius Pilate) acting under authority of the IMPERIAL ROMAN government, directing ROMAN soldiers to carry out the execution by crucification.

WHO'S IN CHARGE HERE? the ROMANS? or Jews? _It doesn't make one damn bit of difference what the Jewish mob may have 'demanded'.

Was this little mob going to take on the Roman Legions over -not- killing one of their fellow Jew's? Not very damn likely.

Who passed the Official Death Sentence Decision? a ROMAN or a Jew?

Who was it that carried out this execution? the ROMANS or the Jews?

The ROMANS were the only 'Christ Killers' in the Gospels.

The ROMANS alone are responsible for THEIR 'Official' decision and act. No one else.

The Gospels are an indictment of the corrupt conduct of the IMPERIAL ROMAN government and its appointed authorities.

Anyone that has ever said the Jews are 'Christ Killers' is a flat-assed liar.

It's all a Hey'sooce caca story anyway. A ROMAN excuse to rationalize their robbing, enslaving, and murdering of Jews for the next thousand years.

aa5874 · 01-23-2013, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

And it was the ROMAN judge who passed the Death Sentence, and it was ROMAN soldiers that carried it out.

None of them had to obey a (apparently quite small) Jewish mob. Remember 'Christ' had thousands of supporters.

The DECISION to find no fault and to excuse, or execute, was entirely within ROMAN hands and power according to the Gospel texts.

And the Decision to Execute, as it were a frivolous matter, was made by a ROMAN judge (Pontius Pilate) acting under authority of the IMPERIAL ROMAN government, directing ROMAN soldiers to carry out the execution by crucification.

WHO'S IN CHARGE HERE? the ROMANS? or Jews? _It doesn't make one damn bit of difference what the Jewish mob may have 'demanded'.

Was this little mob going to take on the Roman Legions over -not- killing one of their fellow Jew's? Not very damn likely.

Who passed the Official Death Sentence Decision? a ROMAN or a Jew?

Who was it that carried out this execution? the ROMANS or the Jews?

The ROMANS were the only 'Christ Killers' in the Gospels.

The ROMANS alone are responsible for THEIR 'Official' decision and act. No one else.

The Gospels are an indictment of the corrupt conduct of the IMPERIAL ROMAN government and its appointed authorities.

Anyone that has ever said the Jews are 'Christ Killers' is a flat-assed liar.

It's all a Hey'sooce caca story anyway. A ROMAN excuse to rationalize their robbing, enslaving, and murdering of Jews for the next thousand years.

The GOSPEL writers did not claim they wrote historical accounts of the Jesus character so I do not know why you are angry with the Romans.

The authors of the Gospels made sure they clearly stated that Jesus was born AFTER his mother became pregnant by a Ghost.

Don't you get the Big Joke??

Jesus was NOTHING real.

Why did people of antiquity Believe the Ghost story??

Why do people TODAY BELIEVE that the Romans KILLED the Son of A Ghost??

Why??

Sheshbazzar · 01-23-2013, 10:18 PM

Is it a Big Joke that Christianity engaged for centuries in robbing, persecuting torturing, and murdering the Jewish people over a pack of fabricated lies?

Can't you understand. I don't give a damn about Christianities imaginary zombie sky buddy?
My care is about the REAL Jews that have had to suffer for this damned pack of chistian fabricated lies. Am I supposed to admire those ROMAN murders?
Or their continuators who now inhabit the Vatican, living in luxury on their ill gotten gains, and pull the strings on today and tomorrows injustices?
_ when they're are not busy buggering little children.

aa5874 · 01-23-2013, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Is it a Big Joke that Christianity engaged for centuries in robbing, persecuting torturing, and murdering the Jewish people over a pack of fabricated lies?

Can't you understand. I don't give a damn about Christianities imaginary zombie sky buddy?
My care is about the REAL Jews that have had to suffer for this damned pack of chistian fabricated lies. Am I supposed to admire those ROMAN murders?
Or their continuators who now inhabit the Vatican, living in luxury on their ill gotten gains, and pull the strings on today and tomorrows injustices?
_ when they're are not busy buggering little children.

Real Non-Jews had to suffer for the Jesus story.

REAL Jews suffered because they Fought with the Romans expecting a Jewish Messianic ruler c 70 CE. The Jewish War had nothing to do with Jesus.

Wars of the Jews 6.5.4

Quote:

But now, what did the most elevate them in undertaking this war, was an ambiguous oracle that was also found in their sacred writings, how," about that time, one from their country should become governor of the habitable earth."

The Jews took this prediction to belong to themselves in particular, and many of the wise men were thereby deceived in their determination.

Now this oracle certainly denoted the government of Vespasian, who was appointed emperor in Judea. However, it is not possible for men to avoid fate, although they see it beforehand.

But these men interpreted some of these signals according to their own pleasure, and some of them they utterly despised, until their madness was demonstrated, both by the taking of their city and their own destruction.

aa5874 · 01-24-2013, 08:51 AM

Again, Doherty fails to grasp the fact the Hebrew is unattested, anonymous and without any know date of authorship.

When the earliest Canonised stories of Jesus were compiled NOT one single verse from Epistle Hebrews was utilised.

We have FIVE Canonised stories about Jesus written over a period of time yet NONE of them reflect any of the Christology of Epistle Hebrews.

It is extremely clear that NONE of the authors of the Canonised Jesus story ever heard of Epistle Hebrews.

Epistle Hebrews is a LATE writing and Had NO influence whatsoever on early Jesus story in the short gMark, the Long gMark, gMatthew, gLuke and gJohn.

Now, when Doherty puts forward the notion that the Jesus in Hebrews was never on earth then it becomes far more clearer that the authors of the Jesus of the Canon never, ever heard of Hebrews because ALL FIVE Canonised stories place their Jesus on EARTH and crucified under Pilate in Jerusalem, PHYSICALLY removed from the Cross and buried in Jerusalem by Joseph of Aritmathea.

The authors of the Gospel heard of the Jesus story in the short gMark and copied it virtually word-for-word.

Only the short gMark story is ATTESTED in the Canon.

Only the short gMark story is corroborated in the Canon.

The author of the long gMark added 12 verses to the short gMark story.

The author of gMatthew added 12 chapters to the short gMark story.

The earliest authors of the Jesus story used the short gMark and stated Jesus was ON EARTH, was Crucified, his body was physically examined for death before removal the cross, his body was RELEASED by Pilate, his body was prepared for burial , and then finally buried by Joseph.

Epistle Hebrews was compiled AFTER the Jesus stories were ALREADY composed and that is precisely why none of the Canon used Epistle Hebrews and none of them is compatible with its Christology of Jesus as a High Priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Effectively, Doherty's challenge is moot--irrelevant.

The Jesus cult of antiquity argued that Jesus was ON EARTH and was physically buried by Joseph.

Mark 15

Quote:

42And now when the even was come , because it was the preparation, that is , the day before the sabbath, 43Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came , and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.

44And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead : and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead . 45And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph. 46And he bought fine linen, and took him down , and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre....

stephan huller · 01-24-2013, 09:28 AM

Off the topic. I have been an observer of aa for some time. There are moments when the facade of barbarity disappears. Look at the sophistication of this sentence, how it is put together:

Quote:

Again, Doherty fails to grasp the fact the Hebrew is unattested, anonymous and without any know (sic!) date of authorship.

aa, is not who he pretends to be. The person pretending to be aa is parodying the average poster here. That's why he often contradicts himself. It's all a joke.

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01-23-2013, 12:13 AM	#12
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Oh I can find thousands of 'Christian' writings and writers that claimed that the Jews were 'Christ killers' or that the 'Jews pierced Jebus'. But that libelous claim is not at all supported by the story that is related in the Gospels. There is not a line to be found stating that JEWS crucified, killed, or ever pierced any person called Jesus the Christ. The Gospel texts are clear. It was the government and soldiers of IMPERIAL ROME that unjustly condemned, crucified, killed, and pierced the Son of God. Jews could not make ROMANS kill Jebus. The ROMAN govorners killed Jebus because the ROMAN governors -CHOSE- to kill Jebus. They didn't give a flying f..iddle what those lunatic Jewish religious barbarians wanted.

01-23-2013, 06:55 PM	#15
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	And it was the ROMAN judge who passed the Death Sentence, and it was ROMAN soldiers that carried it out. None of them had to obey a (apparently quite small) Jewish mob. Remember 'Christ' had thousands of supporters. The DECISION to find no fault and to excuse, or execute, was entirely within ROMAN hands and power according to the Gospel texts. And the Decision to Execute, as it were a frivolous matter, was made by a ROMAN judge (Pontius Pilate) acting under authority of the IMPERIAL ROMAN government, directing ROMAN soldiers to carry out the execution by crucification. WHO'S IN CHARGE HERE? the ROMANS? or Jews? _It doesn't make one damn bit of difference what the Jewish mob may have 'demanded'. Was this little mob going to take on the Roman Legions over -not- killing one of their fellow Jew's? Not very damn likely. Who passed the Official Death Sentence Decision? a ROMAN or a Jew? Who was it that carried out this execution? the ROMANS or the Jews? The ROMANS were the only 'Christ Killers' in the Gospels. The ROMANS alone are responsible for THEIR 'Official' decision and act. No one else. The Gospels are an indictment of the corrupt conduct of the IMPERIAL ROMAN government and its appointed authorities. Anyone that has ever said the Jews are 'Christ Killers' is a flat-assed liar. It's all a Hey'sooce caca story anyway. A ROMAN excuse to rationalize their robbing, enslaving, and murdering of Jews for the next thousand years.

01-23-2013, 10:18 PM	#17
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Is it a Big Joke that Christianity engaged for centuries in robbing, persecuting torturing, and murdering the Jewish people over a pack of fabricated lies? Can't you understand. I don't give a damn about Christianities imaginary zombie sky buddy? My care is about the REAL Jews that have had to suffer for this damned pack of chistian fabricated lies. Am I supposed to admire those ROMAN murders? Or their continuators who now inhabit the Vatican, living in luxury on their ill gotten gains, and pull the strings on today and tomorrows injustices? _ when they're are not busy buggering little children.

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