Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sheshbazzar · 04-02-2007, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

So it's just some uninformed people trying to make some more money based on their own ignorance and the ignorance of others.

Same old, same old, on and on, for as long as men have written;
"That which was, is what will be,
That which was done, is what is still done,
And there is nothing new under the sun."
Liars will lie, and buyers will buy

spin · 04-02-2007, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

It's fascinating to me that Manetho gives two references for identifying the Exodus with Amenhotep III.

Manetho is as trustworthy here as a narc in a drug raid, Dave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

One where he dates the 17th year of Apophis as the year Joseph is appointed vizier, which allows us to date the Exodus 215 years after the 25th of Apophis (i.e. 2nd year of famine when Jacob came to dwell in Egypt); and that it was the sister of Thuthmosis III who adopted Moses. Both work out for the Exodus occurring at the end of the reign of Amenhotep III. So there's a chance for some chronology-linked discussion for the specific reigns during which the Exodus occurred and how that might have impacted on these two specific kings, Amenhotep III and Akhenaten, but that is seldom a part of these documentaries who seem to pretend there's no historical clue whatsoever as to when the Exodus occurred. ???

It's interesting to see you project your presuppositions onto history and hope that it is meaningful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

So it's just some uninformed people trying to make some more money based on their own ignorance and the ignorance of others.

Oh, the irony.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

Akhenaten's sudden and dramatically radical conversion to monotheism is the biggest testament to the miracle of the ten plagues one could hope for! Yet even with the historical reference Akhenaten is a stranger to the Exodus scenarios for the most part.

If you knew something about the politics of the period, you wouldn't write such crap. Read Redford's book on Akhenaten: The Heretic King (or via: amazon.co.uk). That'll point you in a relatively scholarly direction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

What gives?

You are trying your darndest to turn sow's ear into a silk purse. I don't know where you get all this frippery, but you certainly don't know anything about the subject other than a few names.

spin

Malachi151 · 04-03-2007, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

I'm absolutely stunned, Malachi. It's 10 plagues, not seven, and even I seriously doubt that any of it is based in history at all. Stunned.

Well, that's what happens when you just talk off the top of your head. To say that you doubt any of it is based off history at all, are you saying that no one ever experienced plagues of locusts, etc? They completely fabricated each and every plague idea from things that no one had ever experienced?

Riverwind · 04-03-2007, 06:32 AM

One claim that was made in the "documentary" was that the Egyptians would go out to battle with a large pole with a fire on top in front of them.

Does anyone know of any confirmation of such a practice (ie. some reputable scholar of primary source that mentions such a thing), or was this totally made up?

Chris Weimer · 04-03-2007, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

Well, that's what happens when you just talk off the top of your head. To say that you doubt any of it is based off history at all, are you saying that no one ever experienced plagues of locusts, etc? They completely fabricated each and every plague idea from things that no one had ever experienced?

I'm saying that they didn't model the plagues from a real event. You really don't have a good idea of what historicity is, do you?

Huon · 04-03-2007, 07:05 AM

Red Sea and Reed Sea make a joke in English. Not in French. What about the possibility of a joke or a misunderstanding in Hebrew or Egyptian ?

Malachi151 · 04-03-2007, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

I'm saying that they didn't model the plagues from a real event. You really don't have a good idea of what historicity is, do you?

Once again you seem to be arguing about nothing. As I said:

Quote:

"The Exodus" probably has absolutely zero basis in history, its just completely fabricated. There is nothing to "decode".

All I was saying is that, at most, some of the types of plagues that they mentioned were types of things that had happened in the past which people considered terrifying.

I really have no idea what you are going on and on about.

Chris Weimer · 04-03-2007, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

All I was saying is that, at most, some of the types of plagues that they mentioned were types of things that had happened in the past which people considered terrifying.

I really have no idea what you are going on and on about.

Sigh. Apparently not. Anyway, which natural disaster kills all the first born of the land? Or turns rivers to blood?

Malachi151 · 04-03-2007, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Sigh. Apparently not. Anyway, which natural disaster kills all the first born of the land? Or turns rivers to blood?

Those things could be exaggerations of real things that happened, plagues that killed mostly children and red tides, etc., or they could be completely fabricated.

I don't know, nor did I intend to mount a full on defense of a natural basis for each and every plague down the last detail. It was a general comment that was meant to say: at most, the plagues mentioned were types of natural disaster that people were afraid of, which had been complied together into a story.

:huh:

Steven Avery · 04-03-2007, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scifinerdgr

Is this old news amongst biblical scholars? Or is it questionable a la the Jesus family tomb?

Hi Scifinerdgr,

IIDB had about five threads on this starting in August 2006 (put "Exodus Decoded" in search and the threads come up).

My take, breaking the show into sections, starts at -

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...09#post3685409
The Exodus Decoded?

Shalom,
Steven Avery

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04-03-2007, 06:32 AM	#14
Riverwind Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Allen, Tx Posts: 604	One claim that was made in the "documentary" was that the Egyptians would go out to battle with a large pole with a fire on top in front of them. Does anyone know of any confirmation of such a practice (ie. some reputable scholar of primary source that mentions such a thing), or was this totally made up?

04-03-2007, 07:05 AM	#16
Huon Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bordeaux France Posts: 2,796	Red Sea and Reed Sea make a joke in English. Not in French. What about the possibility of a joke or a misunderstanding in Hebrew or Egyptian ?

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