Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Julio · 05-10-2010, 12:50 AM

There is an excellent book on that stuff, which opened my eyes to understand how much Christianity is nothing but a MASSIVE FORGERY from its first day.
http://books.google.co.za/books?id=K...page&q&f=false

Toto · 05-10-2010, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio

There is an excellent book on that stuff, which opened my eyes to understand how much Christianity is nothing but a MASSIVE FORGERY from its first day.
http://books.google.co.za/books?id=KfBKugcgiMcC

History of the Christian Religion to the Year Two Hundred (or via: amazon.co.uk) By Charles B. Waite, 1881 ??

mountainman · 05-10-2010, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio

There is an excellent book on that stuff, which opened my eyes to understand how much Christianity is nothing but a MASSIVE FORGERY from its first day.
http://books.google.co.za/books?id=K...page&q&f=false

See particularly Chapter 7 - The Age of Miracles
Apollonius of Tyana

Roger Pearse · 05-10-2010, 08:25 AM

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Nm5bAAAAMAAJ

andrewcriddle · 05-10-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solo

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

The process begun by Wolsey was (according to the article cited) intended to amalgamate small monasteries and convents with larger ones. This is quite different from the Dissolution of Monastic Life as such, which is what the later program achieved.

Hi Andrew,
I don't see where the article is saying that the authority that Wolsey received from Clement VII. intended to amalgamate monasteries. That Wolsey started the process of monastic suppression (he favoured funding of colleges with the proceeds) under Henry is a well-known and accepted fact and examples of it are are cited by the wiki arrticle (; for more see e.g. page 17, of the essay here.).

Hi Jiri

I was referring to this passage

Quote:

In all these suppressions [those carried out by Wolsey and earlier reformers], friars, monks and nuns were absorbed into other houses of their respective orders. The conventional wisdom of the time was that the proper daily observance of the Divine Office of prayer required a minimum of twelve professed religious, but by the 1530s only a minority of religious houses in England could provide this; and accordingly most observers were agreed that a systematic reform of the English church must necessarily involve the drastic concentration of monks and nuns into many fewer, larger, houses; potentially making much monastic income available for more productive religious, educational and social purposes.

If the suppression of monastery A always involves the transfer of its personnel to Monastery B then the effect is necessarily to amalgamate small monasteries into larger (and hopefully more cost-effective) ones. (I should have noted the cases (eg Creake Abbey) where religious houses with no current personnel whatever were formally closed but these were exceptional situations.)

Andrew Criddle

Solo · 05-10-2010, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Hi Jiri

I was referring to this passage

Quote:

In all these suppressions [those carried out by Wolsey and earlier reformers], friars, monks and nuns were absorbed into other houses of their respective orders. The conventional wisdom of the time was that the proper daily observance of the Divine Office of prayer required a minimum of twelve professed religious, but by the 1530s only a minority of religious houses in England could provide this; and accordingly most observers were agreed that a systematic reform of the English church must necessarily involve the drastic concentration of monks and nuns into many fewer, larger, houses; potentially making much monastic income available for more productive religious, educational and social purposes.

If the suppression of monastery A always involves the transfer of its personnel to Monastery B then the effect is necessarily to amalgamate small monasteries into larger (and hopefully more cost-effective) ones. (I should have noted the cases (eg Creake Abbey) where religious houses with no current personnel whatever were formally closed but these were exceptional situations.)

Andrew Criddle

Ok, thanks Andrew. I see what you are referring to now. Of course there would have been some transfer of the religious to other houses of their orders though I suspect the "pensioning off" of the monks and nuns as it was later done under the Court of Augmentation, started already under the cardinal. I still think that the term "suppresion" is justified given the clear aim of Wolsey to re-invest the income of the closed houses in his educational projects (, while the money still nominally remained in church hands) . The combined revenue of twenty suppressed monasteries were used to finance Wolsey's (Cardinal/King/Christ Church) College at Oxford.

Best,
Jiri

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05-10-2010, 12:50 AM	#21
Julio Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Johannesburg Posts: 5,187	There is an excellent book on that stuff, which opened my eyes to understand how much Christianity is nothing but a MASSIVE FORGERY from its first day. http://books.google.co.za/books?id=K...page&q&f=false

05-10-2010, 08:25 AM	#24
Roger Pearse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 4,370	http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Nm5bAAAAMAAJ

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