BigJim

They become Gods of other planets, or sumthin like that.


I posted the above before I finished reading the thread. reddhedd's answer is probably much more accurate than mine. Am I mixing them up with the Mormons or some other cult, or am I just completely misremembering?

IvanJames

Tell them you're in the Jehova's Witness Protection Program.

Eldarion Lathria

I try to convert them to Anarcho-syndicalism. It's fun to answer their theological points, usually bad logic and quoted from the bible, with arguments for liberty and equality. I may have converted a few.

Eldarion Lathria

vikingrob

Actually, verses 25 and 26.

IonMic

you are mixing them up with mormons

Wolfie

Last time the JWs called on me....

....was the week after the Mormons had been around.

There were two JWs - an elderly lady and a middle aged man. The man started the proceeding with:

"I'd like to talk to you about God...."

I cut him off with a loud "Praise the Lord!"

I then fell down on my knees and insisted that he join me in the genuflected position - and that we should immediately pray together - and that I would lead the prayer.

The guy actually knelt down - I'm not enough of a bastard to have inflicted that on the elderly lady - and I started off in a loud voice (the house is pretty much secluded from neighbours) and proceeded with what I could remember of the school prayer from Python's Meaning of Life - along the lines of "Let us praise God. O Lord, ooh, You are so big, so absolutely huge. Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You. Forgive us, O Lord, for this, our dreadful toadying, and barefaced flattery. But You are so strong and, well, just so super. Fantastic. Amen."

I then continued with what I could remember of the bible reading from the same movie, which went something like: "And lo, the Midianites went forth to Ram Gilead in Kadesh Bilgemath, by Shor Ethra Regalion, to the house of Gash-Bil-Bethuel-Bazda, he who brought the butter dish to Balshazar and the tent peg to the house of Rashomon, and there slew they the goats, yea, and placed they the bits in little pots."

I then stood up and looked at them expectantly.

They decided I was an obvious loony and legged it.

The answers are, indeed, in Python!

Lucretius

I have it appears sadly been "blacklisted " by the local JW's (and the Mormons too I wonder if they share info )
In fact the last time they were in the area I spotted them and was looking forward to a "little chat" when two of them started down my drive only to be really disappointed when a middle aged man with them actually ran after them and physically pulled the two younger ones away.
I did find that being polite with them was a good start puts them at thier ease so you can then really go for the jugular later on.
As others have said the best ways to "argue" with them are bringing up the whole only 144,000 people going to Heaven business ,the list of dates they formerly believed that the world was going to end and my favourite the blood transfusion thing for the latter point out that the only prohibition on blood in the Bible comes in the middle of a passage regarding "kosher" foods and obviously relates to eating foods such as black pudding (blood sausage, Blutwurst whatever you want to call it )and ask them to explain why this has come to be interpreted as being against medical (human)blood transfusion, which Jews fully accept is NOT meant by these passages.

vikingrob

For when the JW's come knocking, some of these responses will be retained (Luke 14:25-26, for one), another quote will be added (Matthew 6:5-6), then to cap it off, a lack of belief in a soul (see this) will probably shut them up. What's the point of destroying what doesn't exist?

DCC

As reddhedd pointed out, JWs believe the majority of their members will live forever on a paradise Earth. The 144,000 make up a kind of government in Heaven. I sometimes pretend to let them educate me on this bit of doctrine by showing me the chapter and verse in the bible, only to point out that the next verse says the 144,000 are virgin men. Then I throw in a few "innocent" questions about whether they know of any Witnesses who claimed to have the "Heavenly Hope" and if they were all men AND virgins.:devil1: So far, none of them have been prepared for this.

Also, JWs don't believe in Hell. So, I would advise against that tactic. Though, it does take some bite out of the carrot and stick routine with an atheist.

Me: "What do you think happens to non-believers when they die?"

JW: "They die forever."

Me: "Oh! Well, that's what I think will happen anyway. No loss there."

JW: "But wouldn't you like to live forever in paradise?"

Me: "Not really. Eternity is a really long time. I'd want to die from the sheer boredom."

JW: :wide:

JWs are also prepared for the "Jehovah isn't the correct pronunciation of YHWH" thing. They have a line about how there's no real agreement over how it should be pronounced so "Jehovah" is just as good, and so on. My approach here is to explain to them about the Masoretic scribes and how, in order to provide a warning to not say name of YHWH (long story), they inserted the vowels for Adonai (generic term for "Lord") into YHWH. Which is how we got "Jehovah." So, even though no one can be completely sure of the correct pronunciation of "YHWH", the one version we can be completely sure isn't correct is "Jehovah." I confess this seems minor. But, they make a big deal out of being the only ones using God's name. And, it's another point they have never been prepared for when I talk with them.

I think my favorite, though, is John 1:1. In their "New World Translation" they changed the verse's meaning by adding an "a" that is not in the original Greek. The one letter arguably makes the biggest change in their translation. Witnesses don't believe in the Trinity, so they don't believe Jesus and Jehovah are the same person. They needed that "a" to change Jesus from being "God" to being "a god." They never seem to have thought through the implications of this, though. So, I'll often start by making a comment about how they're the only polytheistic Christian sect I know of. This has always led into a conversation they hadn't prepared for in advance.

As someone else said in the thread, that's the real problem with talking to Witnesses. They spend a lot of time getting used to attacks and preparing rote responses. They usually seem to steer the conversation because people jump in with incorrect assumptions over and over. I think it's a similar situation to being an atheist and hearing something like "You're an atheist? Hitler was an atheist!" When people jump in unprepared it's easy to "win" a debate.

And, ultimately, that's about the best you can hope for with JWs: a temporary, unconceded victory. I've been in close proximity to a lot of JWs for years. I've tried and tried to plant seeds of doubt. I've seen only 3 deconversions. Only 1 credited the arguments I presented as having influenced their deconversion.

Better than nothing, I suppose.:huh:

Edited to add: JWs don't believe in a soul, either.

Ubercat

I really appreciate all these great suggestions. I wonder if/ when they'll be back? My guess is on the weekend.

-Ubercat