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Old 08-01-2009, 11:57 PM   #21
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If it is assumed that the Bible is the literal truth, and that Jesus especially would never lie, or even fib, then Jesus' parables must be actual recollections of real events and historical, correct?

Just a quick question for Christians or anyone else for that matter.
Parables are not revelation. The latter uses specific commands, in a mode which is never subject to intepretation or confusion by all generations of mankind. Visions [mental perceptions] are sometimes used as parables when it is dangerous to be explicit [as with Daniel under persecution in Babylon].

There has never been a prophet whose words were parables or not understood - we see this in 55 Hebrew prophetic writings, which uses the most sublime grammar, namely the shortest distance between any two words - only the exacting adjectives and adverbs are used, with the least number of words possible of its definition - leaving no room for fillers. The 10 Commandments are not parables but specific mandated constants, and these are the greatest revelations ever handed down to humanity. Nothing mentioned in the Gospel is a historical event, self declared as 'belief' - yet the mass murder of a million Jews under its writer's times is a historical event - but not even mentioned!
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Old 08-02-2009, 09:07 AM   #22
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Just trying to have a friendly discussion, Vinnie.

I know what a modern-day parable is, but how do we know if Jesus was telling the same kind of stories? He would have had access to sources of information we do not have, correct? Do you know for certain that Jesus was not recalling actual events in his parables, and would that have made them any less useful as teaching aides?

The literal truth of which you speak would have been dependent upon many things cultural to that period, correct?
If you know of another definition of a parable please state it.

Vinnie
Like I said, I know the modern definition of what a parable is, and it's based on the belief that what Jesus was doing was using imaginary situations to illustrate a teaching in a simple way. This is something that works quite well in modern times with everyone understanding that the situation itself merely serves as a framework, but do we know for certain that this was how Jesus' little tales were understood by his direct followers, or even meant by himself?

In other words, is it possible that we created the definition for parable based on a theological belief of what Jesus meant by his stories, one that had to jive with their not being literal accounts, yet still in the spirit of truth? Could this have been a misunderstanding that developed through a Christian need to define Jesus as equally human and God?
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:41 PM   #23
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The 10 Commandments are not parables but specific mandated constants, and these are the greatest revelations ever handed down to humanity.
Which is why I never boil a kid in its mother's milk.

The ten commandments (whichever version you prefer) are regularly flouted by Christians and Jews without guilt or explanation.
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Old 08-03-2009, 02:05 AM   #24
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The 10 Commandments are not parables but specific mandated constants, and these are the greatest revelations ever handed down to humanity.
Which is why I never boil a kid in its mother's milk.
Why would you when boiling them in buttermilk provides better flavor
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:29 PM   #25
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Yogurt is a good meat tenderizer (used at least for chicken in Indian cooking).
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Old 08-04-2009, 11:18 PM   #26
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The 10 Commandments are not parables but specific mandated constants, and these are the greatest revelations ever handed down to humanity.
Not such great revelations. Pretty basic stuff, really. Don't murder. Don't Steal. No mention of consequences whatsoever, so they fail to serve as a legal code per se. If anything, they have more in common with the rules of a board game. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

Judeo-Christian tradition holds up the commandments like they were the very first laws ever written, but the Egyptians that Moses led his people away from had their own laws, and even they were not the first. The Sumerian code of Ur-Nammu probably predates the ten commandments by a thousand years and it offers matching punishments for crimes.

From Wiki.
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1. If a man commits a murder, that man must be killed.
2. If a man commits a robbery, he will be killed.
3. If a man commits a kidnapping, he is to be imprisoned and pay 15 shekels of silver.
4. If a slave marries a slave, and that slave is set free, he does not leave the household.
5. If a slave marries a native (i.e. free) person, he/she is to hand the firstborn son over to his owner.
6. If a man violates the right of another and deflowers the virgin wife of a young man, they shall kill that male.
7. If the wife of a man followed after another man and he slept with her, they shall slay that woman, but that male shall be set free. (ยง4 in some translations)
8. If a man proceeded by force, and deflowered the virgin slavewoman of another man, that man must pay five shekels of silver. (5)
9. If a man divorces his first-time wife, he shall pay her one mina of silver. (6)
10. If it is a (former) widow whom he divorces, he shall pay her half a mina of silver. (7)
There are 25 other surviving laws. They're harsh by our standards, but in many ways less so than the later Biblical laws. They are far more cosmopolitan and you can almost say that they are more contemporary than the commandments.
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