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Old 12-13-2006, 08:16 AM   #11
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Some searching on the web leads me to believe that Galilee is "the land of the Gentiles." Which means that "going to Galilee" means "going to the Gentiles."
Isaac Asimov quotes (Asimov's Guide to the Bible II., 64-65) 1 Macc 5:15 ..."they of...Galilee of the Gentiles", and Isaiah 9:1 "in Galilee of the nations" to show that the name Galilee long connoted galil haggoyim, land of the (non-Israelite) nations.

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Old 12-13-2006, 08:40 AM   #12
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It is certainly established that the author of Mark has used the same names for Jesus' closest disciples as Paul used for his "pillars".
True, but it is also widely seen that Paul wrote (well) before Mark. The only case in which the fact that (some pillar names)=(some disciple names) would count firmly against the Jeffrey interpretation, is if both the historical existence of the pillars and that of the disciples were firmly established. Given the amount of problems that seem to accompany the firm establishment of even an historical Jesus, I would think that unlikely.

Now it could of course be that Mark derived the disciples from historical pillars, or that they are shared plot elements between Paul and Mark. In neither case would that be a compelling reason to assume their attitudes toward the gentile mission have to be identical. A lot of time passed between the two: tradition, plot, story may have changed. [Edit] Or, as Jay points out, it could be a harmonization.

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Old 12-13-2006, 10:40 AM   #13
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True, but it is also widely seen that Paul wrote (well) before Mark.
I'm not sure what you think I'm arguing. In actuality, I'm just pointing out a consistency and an inconsistency with what Paul provides. I do not think the inconsistency necessarily counts against the interpretation but I would be interested in how it might be addressed.

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The only case in which the fact that (some pillar names)=(some disciple names) would count firmly against the Jeffrey interpretation, is if both the historical existence of the pillars and that of the disciples were firmly established.
Not necessarily since, for example, Paul could be misrepresenting their actual reaction or that he even obtained their approval.

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Now it could of course be that Mark derived the disciples from historical pillars, or that they are shared plot elements between Paul and Mark. In neither case would that be a compelling reason to assume their attitudes toward the gentile mission have to be identical. A lot of time passed between the two: tradition, plot, story may have changed. [Edit] Or, as Jay points out, it could be a harmonization.
Agree but the fact remains that there is an inconsistency that requires some explanation.
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Old 12-14-2006, 02:49 PM   #14
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Provided of course that the Pillars were the type of Jews who opposed the mission to the Gentiles. How certain is that, Pillars=disciples is not established with any kind of certainty, is it?

Gerard Stafleu
It's notable that apparently the apostles didn't heed Jesus after his death and go to all the world. It appears they hung around Jerusalem, preaching the gospel to the Jews, and thus doing exactly the opposite of what Jesus told them to do. It's almost as if Paul had to commissioned to do the work that the original apostles failed to carry out.
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