Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Crowley · 02-22-2008, 07:05 AM

I think the angel was pimping for the Lord.

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Mary is "highly favored" and "blessed among women". She was a hottie. Perhaps the hottest virgin Jew in existence. That was why she was chosen. God didn't want to get down with no ugly women.

Was she raped? No. There was no actual intercourse.

Was she coerced? Yes. The angel does not ask her if she is willing. He tells her what is going to happen. While she does acquiesce eventually there is certainly no sense of joy for being chosen for this "honor". I see fear; for herself and her future.

stuart shepherd · 02-22-2008, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrey

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuart shepherd

Doesn't Mary's response seem off topic?
...
This reveals that this whole virgin birth thing is just a fabrication.

Stuart Shepherd

Hi Stuart,
Well of course it's a fabrication. Luke (not that I believe such a person existed) needed to tie Jesus to an Old Testament "prophesy" to appeal to Jews while simultaneously outdoing the Greek pantheon of demigods (who were admitted rapists) and retaining both God and Mary's purity. And don't get me started about how Jesus can be paternally descended from David...

It's like asking if Superman can physically have a child with Louis Lane (see "Mallrats" for a discussion of super-sperm); for entertainment purposes only.

That being said, I think that Mary's response is not so much off topic, as it is just wishing to know more about the mechanics of the situation. She should be a little embarrassed for her religious ignorance of not recognizing an angel right off the bat. Yet it is a credit to Mary's manners that she did not bring up the awkward subject that God should owe her parents 30 sheckels or whatever for knocking her up (according to Jewish law)....

Now I see the reason for that 30 shekels.
Great Post!

Stuart Shepherd

Minimalist · 02-22-2008, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reniaa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minimalist

Biiiiiiiiigggggggggg assumption, there. In Gone With The Wind, Scarlett O'Hara had a baby, too. Doesn't make either of them "real."

I don't think we have much choice as the op is stating God raped mary, if god doesn't exist or bible is fiction then the discussion ends there! and can't go further. We have to take the point from assumption that god and bible story is true enough for percieved rape from op point of view becomes a viable discussion.

That reduces this entire board to the status of a literary society. If so, there are books which are far better written than the bible to discuss.

adren@line · 02-24-2008, 01:43 AM

At the very least, God, who's image man was made in, committed adultery, hence violating one of his own commandments.

reniaa · 02-24-2008, 01:59 AM

lol an interesting discussion where you can say rape or adultery are happening when there is a complete lack of sex in the case....:S

You guys are being very old fashioned in your viewpoints, assuming sex has to take place for conception as we can now do medically what God did then and inpregnate a virgin easily without sex involved! lol It's the first time i've had to accuse posters of being old fashioned ^^

You do realise in a court of law this case would be thrown out? the worst you could prove is malpractise but then mary already consented to the operation per se, so even that wouldn't stick.

premjan · 02-24-2008, 02:00 AM

This is reminiscent of the way Surya impregnated Kunti with Karna.

adren@line · 02-24-2008, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reniaa

lol an interesting discussion where you can say rape or adultery are happening when there is a complete lack of sex in the case....:S

You do realise in a court of law this case would be thrown out? the worst you could prove is malpractise but then mary already consented to the operation per se, so even that wouldn't stick.

Well, 2000 years the only way a woman could pregnant is through sex. So God must have snuck in, done his thing, and then left.

Hence he committed adultery.

Further, ......

What does the Bible say about artificial insemination?
http://www.carm.org/questions/artifi...semination.htm

If the married couple is having a problem getting pregnant and artificial insemination is recommended by a doctor, then it is acceptable under the following conditions.

1. Only the sperm and egg of the married couple are involved.
2. Only one egg is fertilized and implanted.

So why cant God follow his own rules? In the OT he massacres entire nations of people due to one of his homicidal temper tantrums and then later on gets frisky with a virgin without being married.
:huh:

reniaa · 02-24-2008, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adren@line

Quote:

Originally Posted by reniaa

lol an interesting discussion where you can say rape or adultery are happening when there is a complete lack of sex in the case....:S

You do realise in a court of law this case would be thrown out? the worst you could prove is malpractise but then mary already consented to the operation per se, so even that wouldn't stick.

Well, 2000 years the only way a woman could pregnant is through sex. So God must have snuck in, done his thing, and then left.

Hence he committed adultery.

Further, ......

What does the Bible say about artificial insemination?
http://www.carm.org/questions/artifi...semination.htm

If the married couple is having a problem getting pregnant and artificial insemination is recommended by a doctor, then it is acceptable under the following conditions.

1. Only the sperm and egg of the married couple are involved.
2. Only one egg is fertilized and implanted.

So why cant God follow his own rules? In the OT he massacres entire nations of people due to one of his homicidal temper tantrums and then later on gets frisky with a virgin without being married.
:huh:

lol added this point to post after you read it

Quote:

You guys are being very old fashioned in your viewpoints, assuming sex has to take place for conception as we can now do medically what God did then and inpregnate a virgin easily without sex involved! lol It's the first time i've had to accuse posters of being old fashioned ^^

You are assuming then that God has only knowledge of current practises of times thereby humanising him?

premjan · 02-24-2008, 02:11 AM

The idea was to create an image of physical perfection for Jesus. His mom didn't do the nasty, and Jesus never needs to shit either.

adren@line · 02-24-2008, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reniaa

Quote:

Originally Posted by adren@line

Well, 2000 years the only way a woman could pregnant is through sex. So God must have snuck in, done his thing, and then left.

Hence he committed adultery.

Further, ......

What does the Bible say about artificial insemination?
http://www.carm.org/questions/artifi...semination.htm

If the married couple is having a problem getting pregnant and artificial insemination is recommended by a doctor, then it is acceptable under the following conditions.

1. Only the sperm and egg of the married couple are involved.
2. Only one egg is fertilized and implanted.

So why cant God follow his own rules? In the OT he massacres entire nations of people due to one of his homicidal temper tantrums and then later on gets frisky with a virgin without being married.
:huh:

lol added this point to post after you read it

Quote:

You guys are being very old fashioned in your viewpoints, assuming sex has to take place for conception as we can now do medically what God did then and inpregnate a virgin easily without sex involved! lol It's the first time i've had to accuse posters of being old fashioned ^^

You are assuming then that God has only knowledge of current practises of times thereby humanising him?

If God did not have sex, then he resorted to some form of artificial insemination, which is against Christian law unless the two people are married.

In other words, unless two individuals are married, one cannot get the other pregnant, through any means. period.

As far as humanizing God, Christian themselves do this. Christianity anthropomorphizes God more-so than any other religion, and has done so for the majority of its existence (sans maybe some Guru-based forms of Hinduism).

The central figure of Christianity is a man who is both God and the son of God, and Christians actively pray to Jesus and base their entire religion around Jesus (not some abstract entity). Christians claim that man is made in God's image.

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02-22-2008, 07:05 AM	#41
Crowley Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: GA Posts: 114	I think the angel was pimping for the Lord. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. Mary is "highly favored" and "blessed among women". She was a hottie. Perhaps the hottest virgin Jew in existence. That was why she was chosen. God didn't want to get down with no ugly women. Was she raped? No. There was no actual intercourse. Was she coerced? Yes. The angel does not ask her if she is willing. He tells her what is going to happen. While she does acquiesce eventually there is certainly no sense of joy for being chosen for this "honor". I see fear; for herself and her future.

02-24-2008, 01:43 AM	#44
adren@line Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: California Posts: 2,615	At the very least, God, who's image man was made in, committed adultery, hence violating one of his own commandments.

02-24-2008, 01:59 AM	#45
reniaa Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: russia Posts: 1,108	lol an interesting discussion where you can say rape or adultery are happening when there is a complete lack of sex in the case....:S You guys are being very old fashioned in your viewpoints, assuming sex has to take place for conception as we can now do medically what God did then and inpregnate a virgin easily without sex involved! lol It's the first time i've had to accuse posters of being old fashioned ^^ You do realise in a court of law this case would be thrown out? the worst you could prove is malpractise but then mary already consented to the operation per se, so even that wouldn't stick.

02-24-2008, 02:00 AM	#46
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	This is reminiscent of the way Surya impregnated Kunti with Karna.

02-24-2008, 02:11 AM	#49
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	The idea was to create an image of physical perfection for Jesus. His mom didn't do the nasty, and Jesus never needs to shit either.

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