Duvduv

What is even more remarkable is how poorly written the alleged Apology is considering it was designed as a plea for tolerance and assistance to an emperor for whom there is NO EVIDENCE at all that such a document was written to him or that he ever received it. Period.
But if people like AA want to accept it on faith (unless they have the required signed affidavits, fingerprints, etc.), that is their prerogative.

aa5874

What fingerprints, and signed affidavits do you have for your PRESUMPTION that the Jesus story and cult started in the 4th or 5th century??

You have NO evidence at all--NONE--ZERO-NOTHING.

I have evidence--the DSS and the NT manuscripts--the Recovered Texts dated by Paleography and C14 that the Jesus story and cult most likely started in the 2nd century.

J-D

aa5874 is obviously prepared to reiterate (publicly) one established exposition in endlessly varied permutations, but hoping for any more work to be done than that looks vain to me.

Duvduv

WHERE is your evidence that the so-called Apology was ever actually sent to the emperor or that he even received it?!
WHERE is your evidence that it was written in the second century? Do you have an original 2nd century manuscript or do you rely on the church?!

aa5874

Where is your evidence for a 4th century Nicene Creed??

I am dealing with the contents of the writings attributed to Justin. The contents of the writings are compatible with the recovered dated Texts and with other contemporary sources.


I will NOT rely on Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline writings.

What Sources do you Rely on for the History of the Church Irenaeus and Eusebius??

I use Justin, Aristides, Theophilus of Antioch, Athenagoras, Tatian, Arnobius, Minucius Felix and Julian.

Please, name your sources from antiquity.

Duvduv

Just answer my questions instead of answering with a question.

Sheshbazzar

Not a challenge, but a gentle question. If genuine, and if actually composed in the 2nd century CE, What difference would it make one way or another whether it was ever actually sent or received?
Would it not have exactly the same content, and be of the same value in our understanding of 2nd century beliefs, conditions, and history?

Duvduv

The simple fact is that as in the case of the epistles AA ignores his great "credible " "recovered data" that has no evidence that it was ever actually written or received in the second century at all. It is claimed for the second century because the church says it is.

aa5874

Well now tell what is your evidence that Justin's writings are "claimed for the 2nd century because the church says it is??

What Credible source from antiquity are you employing???

Please, tell us why the Church wrote "The First Apology" and FORGOT to say that the Four Gospels, Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline letters were READ in the Churches on Sundays???

How could the Church write "the First Apology" and FORGET to mention the Bishops of Rome, the Martyrdom of Peter and Paul and the Day of Pentecost???

If you think the Church wrote all the FOUR Gospels, Acts of the Apostles, the Pauline and Non-Pauline letters, writings attributed to Irenaeus, Tertullian, Polycarp, Ignatius, Clement of Rome, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen then WHY, WHY, WHY are NOT the writings of Justin Martyr filled with same information about the FOUR Gospels, Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline and Non-Pauline letters??

The answer is CLEAR.

The writings attributed to Justin are most unlikely to have been composed by the Church.

Come on Duvduv!!!

If the Church wrote the Four Gospels, Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline and Non-Pauline letters then we would EXPECT them to write about those books in First Apology and Dialogue with Trypho.

They did NOT.

We KNOW who most likely wrote the writings attributed to Ignatius, Clement of Rome, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen if the Church wrote the FOUR Gospels, Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline and Non-Pauline.

The Church did.

1. The Church claimed the FOUR Gospels are the ONLY undisptutable Gospels in the Church of God under heaven.---See Church History 6.25.4

2. The Church claimed Acts of the Apostles was Universally regarded as Authentic. See Church History 2.17.6

3. The Church claimed ALL Pauline letters were Well known and Undisputed. See Church History. See Church History 3.3.5.

The writings attributed to Justin do NOT make such claims. How could the Church FORGET to include those claims in the writings of Justin???

We know the Church Writers that make those claims and Justin is NOT one of them.

Look at a partial List:

Ignatius, Polycarp, Clement of Rome, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Origen and Eusebius.

J-D

aa5874 has never been known to answer questions.