Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Davka · 11-25-2010, 07:35 PM

Yes, this appears to be a real book, and a real argument.

Quote:

“The real question we need to ask is not whether Harry Potter is a ‘Christ Figure’ (similar to a historical religious savior), but rather whether Jesus Christ is a ‘Potter Figure’ (a composition of redemptive mythological symbols and philosophies).”

Book Hype

Guest46854 · 11-25-2010, 07:58 PM

Wooo, battling fictions!
Break out the popped corn

Toto · 11-25-2010, 09:23 PM

This is a familiar argument, dressed up with some contemporary references. Derek Murphy is the author of Dead Little Fish: The Accidental History of Jesus Christ (or via: amazon.co.uk), which was criticized for "amateurish howlers." Murphy took the criticisms to heart and revised the book, and is giving it away for free. He has other material at that link that can be downloaded.

Murphy appears to be a dilettante on the subject of the historical Jesus relying on a spate of books published around 2000. These books are of varying quality; and there are better (and worse) books since then, and to come.

lpetrich · 11-26-2010, 04:01 AM

I'm sorry if I seem to have a Lord Raglan fixation, but most of the similarities that he cites are in Lord Raglan's Mythic-Hero profile. Jesus Christ aand Harry Potter are far from alone in being good fits to it.

1. Hero’s mother is a royal virgin;
2. His father is a king, and
3. Often a near relative of his mother, but
4. The circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
5. He is also reputed to be the son of a god.
6. At birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or his maternal grand father to kill him, but
7. he is spirited away, and
8. Reared by foster-parents in a far country.
9. We are told nothing of his childhood, but
10. On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future Kingdom.
11. After a victory over the king and/or a giant, dragon, or wild beast,
12. He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor and
13. And becomes king.
14. For a time he reigns uneventfully and
15. Prescribes laws, but
16. Later he loses favor with the gods and/or his subjects, and
17. Is driven from the throne and city, after which
18. He meets with a mysterious death,
19. Often at the top of a hill,
20. His children, if any do not succeed him.
21. His body is not buried, but nevertheless
22. He has one or more holy sepulchres.

I've scored Jesus Christ as 18.5 out of 22, and Harry Potter as 12 out of 15, because the Harry Potter story ends in the middle of his career. Scoring JC in the same way makes him 11.5 out of 15, very close.

judge · 11-26-2010, 06:47 PM

Jeremiah 18:3

"So I went down to the potter's house, and I saw him working at the wheel."

Its all beginning to make sense.

Sheshbazzar · 11-26-2010, 06:57 PM

By God judge! you've done found yet another Jebus prophecy!
Jerry and Jebus prophesied Harry Potter!

Lemme look around a bit, I'm sure there's a Harry -'hairy'? verse in there somewhere that we can use.

Hey, it was OK enough for Matt & Co to cob and twist OT verses at will.

Sheshbazzar · 11-26-2010, 09:15 PM

Ah, there it is.

Quote:

"He was an hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins. And he said, It is Elijah the Tishbite!"

Thus is fulfilled the prophecy of Scripture; This Harry Potter, whom we have seen with our own eyes and not another's, and of whom we do testify, flyeth about the heavens, is the transfiguration of Elijah the Tishbite;

Whom hath ascended up on high, and whom the heavens hath retained until the fullness of time,
has now returned unto us in the latter days, In fulfillment of the Scripture which surely saith he shall;
"turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers",
(via way of Theaters and Cd's) Of whom the Holy Scriptures of old do most surely testify.

Believe it, or be cast whole into the Lake of Fire, to burn and be tormented forever and ever.

.

GakuseiDon · 11-26-2010, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpetrich

17. Is driven from the throne and city, after which
18. He meets with a mysterious death,
19. Often at the top of a hill,
20. His children, if any do not succeed him.
21. His body is not buried, but nevertheless
22. He has one or more holy sepulchres.

I've scored Jesus Christ as 18.5 out of 22, and Harry Potter as 12 out of 15, because the Harry Potter story ends in the middle of his career. Scoring JC in the same way makes him 11.5 out of 15, very close.

Actually, Harry Potter is driven from Hogwards; he dies a mysterious death; Hogwarts where he dies is built upon a hill (see this img; his body (when he died the first time) isn't buried.

mountainman · 11-28-2010, 06:02 PM

Thanks Davka,

Many people are looking forward to seeing the release of Harry Potter Seven in Australia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davka

Book Hype

Background.

Somewhat reformatted ....

Quote:

Interest and controversy over the historical nature of Jesus Christ and his relationship to pre-existing pagan mythologies have been developing steadily in the past several decades, and although the internet today is full of websites and viral videos such as Zeitgeist exploring the origins of Christianity, there have been very few publications giving this topic a full and comprehensive evaluation.

Whether or not the Jesus Christ as presented in the gospels was a historical figure is a source of much interest, and books on the subject have been both well-received and heavily criticized.

Titles exploring the mythical or literary Jesus include

G.A. Wells’ Did Jesus Exist? (1975), as well as his later books
The Jesus Legend (1996) and
The Jesus Myth (1998).
The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold by Acharya S;
The Jesus Mysteries: Was Jesus a Pagan God? by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy; and
The Jesus Puzzle by Earl Doherty
Jesus: Neither God nor Man-The Case for a Mythical Jesus (Earl)
Robert M. Price’s Deconstructing Jesus (2000) and
The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man (2003), and more recently
Tom Harpur’s The Pagan Christ (2005) and sequel
Water Into Wine (2007).

Due to the interest and lack of modern material, some publishers have begun reprinting older books on the subject, for example, Alvin Boyd Kuhn’s 1944 Who is this King of Glory (republished with a modern cover in 2007). On the flip side, Lee Strobel’s The Case for Christ (1998) has enjoyed huge success as a defense for the historical Jesus.

Finally, the quickly growing atheist movement is becoming interested in the subject as well, and celebrity thinkers such as Richard Dawkins have posted articles concerning the mythical Jesus Christ on their websites, generating a great deal of online buzz.

This unresolved controversy is a topic of great personal interest for many people, and books exploring the historical nature of Jesus Christ will continue to be relevant for quite some time.

The Historical Nature of Jesus Christ, Harry Potter and Nicaea

The question to be asked is what would happen if someone took over the world and created a compulsory religion based on the Harry Potter series of books. Would there be any resistance to the deification of Harry Potter as the official omnipresent and Universal God within the Hubble Limit?

I think there would be resistance to the new Harry Potter religion. People might even say things like .....

There was time when Harry Potter was not.
Before Harry Potter was born He was not.
Harry Potter was made out of nothing existing.
Harry Potter is/was from another subsistence/substance.
Harry Potter is subject to alteration or change.

PhilosopherJay · 11-28-2010, 06:18 PM

Hi Mountainman,

You would have to convince Harry Potter fans that he actually existed for the religion to be taken seriously. Today, there is too much information available and people can easily fact check and find out he doesn't exist.

In Ancient Rome, people did not have such fact checking ability. Therefore it was a simple matter to get people to believe that Jesus existed. Offer them a meal and some wine and they had no reason not believe what they heard was true and they had no opportunity to find out differently, especially the 90% of the population which was illiterate.

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Thanks Davka,

Many people are looking forward to seeing the release of Harry Potter Seven in Australia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davka

Book Hype

Background.

Somewhat reformatted ....

Quote:

Interest and controversy over the historical nature of Jesus Christ and his relationship to pre-existing pagan mythologies have been developing steadily in the past several decades, and although the internet today is full of websites and viral videos such as Zeitgeist exploring the origins of Christianity, there have been very few publications giving this topic a full and comprehensive evaluation.

Whether or not the Jesus Christ as presented in the gospels was a historical figure is a source of much interest, and books on the subject have been both well-received and heavily criticized.

Titles exploring the mythical or literary Jesus include

G.A. Wells’ Did Jesus Exist? (1975), as well as his later books
The Jesus Legend (1996) and
The Jesus Myth (1998).
The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold by Acharya S;
The Jesus Mysteries: Was Jesus a Pagan God? by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy; and
The Jesus Puzzle by Earl Doherty
Jesus: Neither God nor Man-The Case for a Mythical Jesus (Earl)
Robert M. Price’s Deconstructing Jesus (2000) and
The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man (2003), and more recently
Tom Harpur’s The Pagan Christ (2005) and sequel
Water Into Wine (2007).

Due to the interest and lack of modern material, some publishers have begun reprinting older books on the subject, for example, Alvin Boyd Kuhn’s 1944 Who is this King of Glory (republished with a modern cover in 2007). On the flip side, Lee Strobel’s The Case for Christ (1998) has enjoyed huge success as a defense for the historical Jesus.

Finally, the quickly growing atheist movement is becoming interested in the subject as well, and celebrity thinkers such as Richard Dawkins have posted articles concerning the mythical Jesus Christ on their websites, generating a great deal of online buzz.

This unresolved controversy is a topic of great personal interest for many people, and books exploring the historical nature of Jesus Christ will continue to be relevant for quite some time.

The Historical Nature of Jesus Christ, Harry Potter and Nicaea

The question to be asked is what would happen if someone took over the world and created a compulsory religion based on the Harry Potter series of books. Would there be any resistance to the deification of Harry Potter as the official omnipresent and Universal God within the Hubble Limit?

I think there would be resistance to the new Harry Potter religion. People might even say things like .....

There was time when Harry Potter was not.
Before Harry Potter was born He was not.
Harry Potter was made out of nothing existing.
Harry Potter is/was from another subsistence/substance.
Harry Potter is subject to alteration or change.

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11-25-2010, 07:58 PM	#2
Guest46854 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: California Posts: 99	Wooo, battling fictions! Break out the popped corn

11-25-2010, 09:23 PM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	This is a familiar argument, dressed up with some contemporary references. Derek Murphy is the author of Dead Little Fish: The Accidental History of Jesus Christ (or via: amazon.co.uk), which was criticized for "amateurish howlers." Murphy took the criticisms to heart and revised the book, and is giving it away for free. He has other material at that link that can be downloaded. Murphy appears to be a dilettante on the subject of the historical Jesus relying on a spate of books published around 2000. These books are of varying quality; and there are better (and worse) books since then, and to come.

11-26-2010, 04:01 AM	#4
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	I'm sorry if I seem to have a Lord Raglan fixation, but most of the similarities that he cites are in Lord Raglan's Mythic-Hero profile. Jesus Christ aand Harry Potter are far from alone in being good fits to it. 1. Hero’s mother is a royal virgin; 2. His father is a king, and 3. Often a near relative of his mother, but 4. The circumstances of his conception are unusual, and 5. He is also reputed to be the son of a god. 6. At birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or his maternal grand father to kill him, but 7. he is spirited away, and 8. Reared by foster-parents in a far country. 9. We are told nothing of his childhood, but 10. On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future Kingdom. 11. After a victory over the king and/or a giant, dragon, or wild beast, 12. He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor and 13. And becomes king. 14. For a time he reigns uneventfully and 15. Prescribes laws, but 16. Later he loses favor with the gods and/or his subjects, and 17. Is driven from the throne and city, after which 18. He meets with a mysterious death, 19. Often at the top of a hill, 20. His children, if any do not succeed him. 21. His body is not buried, but nevertheless 22. He has one or more holy sepulchres. I've scored Jesus Christ as 18.5 out of 22, and Harry Potter as 12 out of 15, because the Harry Potter story ends in the middle of his career. Scoring JC in the same way makes him 11.5 out of 15, very close.

11-26-2010, 06:47 PM	#5
judge Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bli Bli Posts: 3,135	Jeremiah 18:3 "So I went down to the potter's house, and I saw him working at the wheel." Its all beginning to make sense.

11-26-2010, 06:57 PM	#6
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	By God judge! you've done found yet another Jebus prophecy! Jerry and Jebus prophesied Harry Potter! Lemme look around a bit, I'm sure there's a Harry -'hairy'? verse in there somewhere that we can use. Hey, it was OK enough for Matt & Co to cob and twist OT verses at will.

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