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Old 03-23-2006, 09:49 AM   #111
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I appreciate that liberal scholars would say 70 A.D. - 100 A.D.
Actually, this is the overwhelming consensus of all modern scholars. True not all agree, but the majority do.

It's nice of you to post individual findings, but you're entirely ignorant of the professional consensus, anyone wanna give him some links?
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Old 03-23-2006, 09:55 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by FatherMithras
Actually, this is the overwhelming consensus of all modern scholars. True not all agree, but the majority do.

It's nice of you to post individual findings, but you're entirely ignorant of the professional consensus, anyone wanna give him some links?
And what I keep saying is that the entire thrust of the OP was to allege what "the consensus of modern scholarship" agrees. Therefore statements from individual scholars are not relevant. The OP is false. The c. of modern s. is that the gospels were written after 70 C.E. This is a fact. When they were actually written, of course, will never be known. But that is not what the OP says.
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Old 03-23-2006, 10:06 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Richbee
I appreciate that liberal scholars would say 70 A.D. - 100 A.D.

In contrast, I was quoting:

William Albright, one of the greatest archaeologists of the 20th century, declared, “We can already say emphatically that there is no longer any solid basis for dating any book of the New Testament after about A.D. 80.” He also states, “Every book of the New Testament [excluding Luke who was possibly not Jewish] was written by a baptized Jew between the forties and eighties of the first century A.D.”[26] Finally, he asserts, “Only modern scholars who lack both historical method and perspective” could come to a conclusion of much later authorship of the New Testament.[27]

http://www.foolishfaith.com/book_chap6_foot.asp#26
thanks.

Well I googled for William Albright, but that only turned up a musician - so I guess he ain't all that 'famous'. But then I googled again adding 'archeologist' and here's the first site I came across -> yep, apologetics press. And what do the good gentlemen say? From the top:
Quote:
Originally Posted by apologetics press
Dating in Archaeology: Challenges to Biblical Credibility
by Garry K. Brantley, M.A., M.Div.


Printer version | Email this article


[EDITOR’S NOTE: This is the second of a two-part series on “Dating in Archaeology.” Part I is titled “Dating in Archaeology: Radiocarbon and Tree-Ring Dating.”]

“Biblical historical data are accurate to an extent far surpassing the ideas of any modern critical students, who have consistently tended to err on the side of hypercriticism” (1949, Albright, p. 229).

“Archaeologists now generally agree that their discoveries...have produced a new consensus about the formation of ancient Israel that contradicts significant parts of the biblical version” (Strauss, 1988).

These statements represent the conflicting messages that characterize the field of archaeology. In Albright’s era, archaeologists’ interpretations of field excavations ordinarily corroborated biblical information. It was common for prominent archaeologists such as Nelson Glueck to confidently affirm: “...no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical reference” (1959, p. 31).

Prior to the 1970s, interpretations of archaeological explorations generally heightened the Bible’s credibility (Davis, 1993, 19[2]:54-59). Since then, however, the amiable relationship between archaeology and the Bible has deteriorated dramatically. It is commonplace for the new generation of archaeologists to spurn the historical credibility of the biblical narrative (see Dever, 1990, 16[3]:52-62).

Archaeology, therefore, presents a challenge to those who contend for the integrity of the Scriptures. How are we to respond? On what basis do many archaeologists repudiate the historicity of the biblical text, and how reliable are their methods? To answer these and other questions we must have a basic understanding of the science of archaeology.
Nuff said?
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Old 03-23-2006, 10:08 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by post tenebras lux
thanks.

Well I googled for William Albright, but that only turned up a musician - so I guess he ain't all that 'famous'. But then I googled again adding 'archeologist' and here's the first site I came across -> yep, apologetics press. And what do the good gentlemen say? From the top:Nuff said?
I'm not sure where you're going with this?

Do you have any weight of evidence to reveal that modern critics or "skeptics" have more credibility?

I have a assembled a short list if idiots and so..........

Follow along....

Curmudgeon - Date - False Premise

H.S. Reimarus: 1778 - Claimed disciples stole the body of Jesus, and made up the resurrection story

David Friedrich Strauss: 1835- - In Life of Jesus, doubted historical accuracy of gospels

Bruno Bauer: 1882 - Denied that Jesus actually lived

William Wrede: 1901 -- In Messianic Secret, claimed that the evangelists had put words in the mouth of Jesus to make theological points

Albert Schweitzer: 1906 - In The Quest of the Historical Jesus, denies that Jesus was the Messiah

Religions-geschichtliche Schule: c. 1900 -- Drew parallels between Christianity and other religious sects in the Mideast

K.L. Schmidt: 1919 - Claims details of time and place in the Gospels are fabricated

Elizabeth Clare Prophet: 1984 -- In Lost Years of Jesus, pictures Jesus as a mystic traveling in India for 17 years.



A Theosophist!

Michael Bagent, Henry Lincoln: 1982 - In Holy Blood, Holy Grail, Jesus as the husband of Mary Magdalene

G.A. Wells: 1971, 1975, 1982 -- In three different books, questions whether Jesus ever existed

John Dominic Crossan - Jesus Seminar: 1993 - Panel members voted on which words of Jesus are "accurate"; The Five Gospels claim that only 18% of the words attributed to Jesus are verifiable

Gardner, Laurence: 1996 - - In Bloodline of the Holy Grail, Jesus as 1) husband of Mary Magdalene 2) an Essene teacher 3) brother of Joseph of Arimathea

Interestingly enough, though, modern archaeology, and ancient history do verify much of the historical panoply of the Gospels.

Why study the historical Jesus? - A Lesson for the so called "skeptics". - Click HERE
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Old 03-23-2006, 10:15 AM   #115
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Just that the guy you're relying on to date John as 'no later than 80 AD' appears to be outdated.

That's all.
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Old 03-23-2006, 11:05 AM   #116
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My neighbor, one of the greatest minds of the 21st century, said the gospels were written by elves in 200 CE. . . .

Richbee, ever heard of the fallacy of an appeal to authority? Ever heard of the No True Scotsman fallacy?

See if you can count the number of times your posts (or the nested links) commit these fallacties.
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Old 03-23-2006, 12:30 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Richbee
I'm not sure where you're going with this?

Do you have any weight of evidence to reveal that modern critics or "skeptics" have more credibility?

I have a assembled a short list if idiots and so..........
What on earth is your point? The point of the post is that there have been significant archeological discoveries, by archeologists, working in archeology, which have changed the views of scholars since Mr. Albright wrote, so that might have significant effect on what he said.
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Old 03-23-2006, 12:38 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbee
Interestingly enough, though, modern archaeology, and ancient history do verify much of the historical panoply of the Gospels.
Again, depending on exactly what you mean by "panoply", the great majority of scholars disagree with this statement. That is, most mainstream scholars believe that the events described in the gospels are not verified by archeological evidence. Although many of the places existed, the events themselves are not verified.
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Old 03-23-2006, 02:54 PM   #119
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Richbee-

I do in fact know the original source. Do you? You've just quoted from people talking about Sherwin-White, whereas I quoted Sherwin-White himself. When you compare quotes, we find that Craig et. al. have misrepresented the historian's claims regarding legend development.
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Old 03-23-2006, 04:26 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Richbee
In the case of Peter, his words stand for themselves. Nearly 50% of all history is recorded by only one eyewitness.
Did you know that 78% of all statistics are made up on the spot with 52% of them being pulled out of an arse...
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